Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-04 Thread Andrew Beveridge
I hope Jared hasn't been scared off by all this discussion generated - it is my personal opinion that the way he is hoping to do this is not likely to be effective or possible to achieve. Rather, if he genuinely wants to advance development on a specific port, I believe the best way to do it is to

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-03 Thread Gareth Schakel
On 5/1/2010 7:50 AM, Thomas Martitz wrote: Am 01.05.2010 09:37, schrieb Alex Parker: On 01/05/10 04:01, Thomas Martitz wrote: Still, other may disagree :) Alex Right, I disagree. None of the points you mentioned particularly speaks against bounties. I especially find the idea stupid to disa

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Thomas Martitz
Am 01.05.2010 09:37, schrieb Alex Parker: On 01/05/10 04:01, Thomas Martitz wrote: Still, other may disagree :) Alex Right, I disagree. None of the points you mentioned particularly speaks against bounties. I especially find the idea stupid to disallow payments to work on our project just be

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Nils
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Dave Chapman wrote: > But basically, I think the only rule should be that targets are only added > to that page with the general agreement of the community.  i.e. someone > would nominate a target for inclusion, and then we would try to reach a > consensus... > > D

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Paul Louden
But basically, I think the only rule should be that targets are only added to that page with the general agreement of the community. i.e. someone would nominate a target for inclusion, and then we would try to reach a consensus... A nomination system would be great. I was thinking in line wit

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Dave Chapman
Paul Louden wrote: So I'm wondering if one easy (and free!) thing someone could do is to collect this information together in some kind of "Future targets" wiki page, to try and promote these as tasks people could work on. We should probably set some minimum requirement for the "future target"

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Paul Louden
So I'm wondering if one easy (and free!) thing someone could do is to collect this information together in some kind of "Future targets" wiki page, to try and promote these as tasks people could work on. We should probably set some minimum requirement for the "future target" page so that it's

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Dave Chapman
Daniel Stenberg wrote: I like the idea of bounties, because it still works good together with the open source idea. I disagree. Bounties are very hard to make work in the open source spirit. I believe it _can_ be done, but it's not easy. So what (if anything) can work in attracting developer

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Alex Parker
On 01/05/10 10:20, Daniel Stenberg wrote: On Sat, 1 May 2010, Thomas Martitz wrote: Not all. I think boundy/paid work is a good way to get stuff actually done in the FOSS world since otherwise work will only be done on a "yea, in this moment I'm concerned about this, but maybe not anymore next

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Daniel Stenberg
On Sat, 1 May 2010, Thomas Martitz wrote: Not all. I think boundy/paid work is a good way to get stuff actually done in the FOSS world since otherwise work will only be done on a "yea, in this moment I'm concerned about this, but maybe not anymore next week" - if at all. People getting paid to

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Alex Parker
Just to clarify slightly, I don't think that bounties being paid for work that reuses previous work is necessarily bad (it is impossible to do anything otherwise) - I just think depending on circumstance it can lead to bad blood, and be hard to administer (how do you decide who gets what if som

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-05-01 Thread Alex Parker
On 01/05/10 04:01, Thomas Martitz wrote: Still, other may disagree :) Alex Right, I disagree. None of the points you mentioned particularly speaks against bounties. I especially find the idea stupid to disallow payments to work on our project just because it ignores the lot of work that alrea

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Thomas Martitz
Am 01.05.2010 01:18, schrieb Paul Louden: Sorry about that, didn't read down that far on the etiquette section I guess. We do like our ettiquette :) Anyhow, it appears this bounty thing is not going to work. Please forget I mentioned it. Please don't feel discouraged due to individu

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread David Hall
And Paul just dropped some key nuggets above.

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread David Hall
On 04/30/2010 07:12 PM, Jared Albers wrote: > Anyhow, it appears this bounty thing is not going to work. Please forget I > mentioned it. It could work (though I know there are many who strongly feel bounties are a no-go). The idea of supporting a project financially is an attractive one, the is

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Paul Louden
Sorry about that, didn't read down that far on the etiquette section I guess. Anyhow, it appears this bounty thing is not going to work. Please forget I mentioned it. It could work, but you need to approach it with a few specific thoughts: 1) Recognize that an awful lot of work has alrea

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Jared Albers
> Hello Jared, > > please do not top-post to this list as our mailing list etiquette asks > you to do. Thanks. > > > - Dominik Sorry about that, didn't read down that far on the etiquette section I guess. Anyhow, it appears this bounty thing is not going to work. Please forget I mentioned i

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Jared Albers
No, there would need to be discrimination, as it is my understanding that Linux is a much harder beast to port. In reality, a new line item for Rockbox would need to be added and the percentages of the bounty shifted accordingly. On 4/30/10 4:55 PM, "Paul Louden" wrote: > I guess, I'm trying t

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Dominik Riebeling
Hello Jared, please do not top-post to this list as our mailing list etiquette asks you to do. Thanks. - Dominik

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Paul Louden
I guess, I'm trying to ask "what do you mean by the 'Linux' line"? Could that be improved to "Linux or Rockbox" to indicate that the bounty doesn't discriminate about which project you're trying to contribute to?

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Jared Albers
Its a working document. I'm seeking knowledgeable people who might better understand how the bounty could be better distributed. Its ultimately just an example. On 4/30/10 4:43 PM, "Paul Louden" wrote: > On 4/30/2010 5:40 PM, Jared Albers wrote: >> Its not meant to be structured like that. I si

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Dominik Riebeling
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Alex Parker wrote: > I plain don't like bounties.  They ignore all the work that has been already [...] > > Still, other may disagree :) However, I do agree :) - Dominik

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Paul Louden
On 4/30/2010 5:40 PM, Jared Albers wrote: Its not meant to be structured like that. I simply am unaware of all the pieces needed to get rockbox support. That is why they aren't listed on the spreadsheet. But the bounty is meant to include Rockbox as well. But there's a flat 40% reserved for Linux

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Jared Albers
Its not meant to be structured like that. I simply am unaware of all the pieces needed to get rockbox support. That is why they aren't listed on the spreadsheet. But the bounty is meant to include Rockbox as well. On 4/30/10 4:33 PM, "Paul Louden" wrote: > I note that your entire bounty structu

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Alex Parker
Whilst not wanting to rain on your parade, let me just state my personal view. I plain don't like bounties. They ignore all the work that has been already done, they can lead to bad blood, are hard to administer, and unless the money is huge are useless in terms of getting someone with the r

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Paul Louden
A further thought on the bounty structure - it might make sense to incorporate a flat percentage of all bounties as dedicated to the projects supporting the hardware rather than the programmer. For example, split 50/50 between programmer and project, as a nod toward the many, many people who've

Re: Proposal for Bounty to get Linux & Rockbox ported to the iPod Nano 4G and 5G

2010-04-30 Thread Paul Louden
I note that your entire bounty structure is focused on getting Linux support. Given that this is the Rockbox list, and you've offered no final value to Rockbox support, do you really think this proposal belongs here?