Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to sanskrit@cs.utah.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Sanskrit Glossary (Paulo Lyra) 2. pronounciation of sanskrit (Sylvain) 3. pronouncing sanskrit (Sylvain) 4. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13 (Michel Bostr?m) 5. Sutra discussion (jayesh gohel) 6. inflecting individual letters (Jay Vaidya) 7. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13 (Sai) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 23:07:43 -0300 From: "Paulo Lyra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Sanskrit] Sanskrit Glossary To: <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all Sanskrit Pundits, At present I am writing a book, namely "Small Glossary of Indian Philosophy", edited in Brazilian-Portuguese, whereby 90% percent of the entries included in the Glossary (about 800 words) are in Sanskrit. Could I submit these entries to any of you and, if convenient, receive suggestions and/or corrections so that I may feel more confident in publishing this non-profit work. Namas te & Pranams, Paulo Lyra, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil [EMAIL PROTECTED] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/private/sanskrit/attachments/20061019/d2b5bcea/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:47:19 -0400 From: "Sylvain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Sanskrit] pronounciation of sanskrit To: <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" NamaskAra ! My name is Sylvain. I just subscribed. i am looking for examples of spiritual sanskrit words that contains some specific letters. If i write in Charis SIL, can you read it ? If not, can i send file in pdf ? Sylvain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/private/sanskrit/attachments/20061021/99d0c8fc/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:01:16 -0400 From: "Sylvain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Sanskrit] pronouncing sanskrit To: <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi ! Web sites suggest to pronounce sanskrit a variety of ways. Are you familiar with International Phonetic Alphabet ? If yes, I'll send you a file with different suggestions on how to pronounce sanskrit and I would have some questions. Sylvain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/private/sanskrit/attachments/20061024/00c3858a/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:06:28 +1000 From: Michel Bostr?m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13 To: <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu> Message-ID: <!&[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear Shri Bhashyam, I do not know the traditional Vedic learning system. I do know that it has enabled the Vedas to be perfectly remembered over thousands of years and preserved the meanings even of grammatical structures and words that had been completely lost to Sanskrit by the classical period. This is very impressive. Any device that forms part of that system cannot lightly be criticised by one such as me who has trouble remembering who I ate dinner with last Friday. So I stand corrected and chastened. Can you recommend a web site or readily available text book that can give an introduction to the subject? On the "guru" example, I stand my ground. Googling "guru etymology" yielded several such purported etymologies on the web, including the one that I had heard, where "gu" means darkens and "ru", to dispel, so "guru" means dispeller of darkness". The source given is Advayataraka Upanishad 14--18, verse 5. Regardless of the source, and with the greatest possible respect to ancient sages, there can be no etymology of the word "guru" that explains its meaning of "teacher", since the primary meaning of the word is "heavy"; and by extension "important", whence "important person" or "elder", and specifically father, mother, etc; and finally "teacher". Kind regards Michel Bostr?m -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 04:00 To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu Subject: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13 Send sanskrit mailing list submissions to sanskrit@cs.utah.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sanskrit digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 12 (Vijayaraghavan Bashyam) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Vijayaraghavan Bashyam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 12 To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii >All I can cay is: if you say so, I guess that is what these sounds >mean. But that does not make them Sanskrit. I am not sure if this is applicable here since I am more familiar with the traditional way of vedic learning than with classical sanskrit, Panini etc. In the traditional vedic learning system (aleast kRRiShNa yajur veda taittirIya shAkhA) after 'graduating' with the degree of ghanapAThI, the next stage is to learn veda 'lakShaNa'. The student is taught the meanings of the various sounds which appear in the veda, the differences between the same syllable intonated at different relative pitches, grouping of syllables into varNas and vargas, etc., Until now the student only has been taught the sounds with analogies of other sounds. During lakShaNa learning, the student is taught the importance of particular intonations. That is, the focus is on the 'why' rather than on the 'what' as far as the sounds are concerned. Etymology is one of the parts of lakShaNa. After mastering lakShaNa, the student gets the title of 'salakShaNa ghanapAThI'. The next step is to go on to vedArtha. lakShaNa is an important step towards vedArtha because, the correct interpretations of the words is possible only with a strong grip on lakShaNa. I dont know if the gu-ru example stems from veda lakShaNa but it might be worth looking into. Perhaps one of Sayana's commentaries has something on this. vijayarAghavan bhAShyam ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ sanskrit mailing list sanskrit@cs.utah.edu http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13 **************************************** ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:09:43 -0700 (PDT) From: jayesh gohel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Sanskrit] Sutra discussion To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" this is an offshoot from the discussion, but i thought i would recieve an answer for my question. what would then samarangnasutradhar -etymologically mean? (correct me if have not formulated the question well) i would also heartily thank writers on this list for giving us such wonderful insights on sanksrit in general, and specifically panini's work. jayesh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/private/sanskrit/attachments/20061025/0eb34155/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Sanskrit] inflecting individual letters To: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 mishela-Anandmishra-mahodayau krameNa likhataH : mishela-mahodayaH: > ... these sounds ... are not found in > any dictionary and, as far as I know, they have no > conjugations or declensions, so they cannot be used > in a Sanskrit sentence. tataH Ananda-mishramahodayaH: > Secondly is the question, Can the individual letters > be inflected? The answer is: yes. Examples (in > abundance!) is to be found in the 'aSTAdhyAyI' of > 'pANini' itself. atra mahodayayoH vachanayoH sa.nGYa-sa.nGYI-sandehaH sandigdha-prayogaH vA dR^ishyate | ata eva tayoH prashn-ottara-vAkye paraspara-a-sambaddhe | (Taken together, the two gentlemen's statements show either a doubt between the the "name" and the "named", or show ambiguous usage. Thus, their question and answer do not pertain to each other.) tatra sa.nGYA eva prAtipadikatvam prApnoti, tAm eva anu-yujyate pratyayaH, tad-yogena eva ud-bhavati padam, padAni eva bhAshhAyAM sAdhuni | sa.nGYI tu bhAshhAyAM na sAdhuH | (Only the name gets lexical status, only to it are terminations added, and from that arise syntax-capable word-forms. Only these are grammatical in language. The "named" is not grammatical in language.) tasy-odAharaNaM | lAlArasa iti shabdaH sa.nGYA, lAlArasa iti dravam sa.nGYI | lAlArasaH iti dravam mukhAt-praxiptam loke arthavat, ghR^iNAM vA tiraskAro vA prakaTayati | tathApi tan mukha-rasa-praxepaH bhAshhA-prayoga iti na hi uchyate | tena artha-pUrNena api mukha-rasa-praxepeNa saha pratyaya-yoga-prasa.ngaH eva na, kim uta kAraka-prakriyA | lAlArasa-iti shabdaH pratyayayuktaH sa.nGYA-tvaM prAptaH bhAshhAyAm upayoge sAdhuH | (Here is an example: The word "spittle" is a name, the liquid "spittle" is the named. The liquid called "spittle" can be projected from the mouth, and is meaningful in society as an expression of disgust or despising. However, the projection of this mouth-fluid is not said to be language-use. There is no word-termination added to this liquid-projection, there is no question of coordinating syntax. The word "spittle", which is a name, after adding word-terminations, is grammatical for use in language.) ata eva pANininA 1.1.68-tame sUtre upadishyate | 1.1.68 svaM rUpaM shabdasya a-shabda-sa.nGYA | (That is why it is taught by pANini in 1.1.68 1.1.68 Excepting the use of technical names, the form of a sound itself is the technical name for the sound.) atra "shabda" ityasya arthaH uchchArita-mAtram | na tu prAtipadikam naiva padam | ataH shabdaH sa.nGYI, vyAkaraNa-shAstre tasya sva-rUpam eva sa.nGYA | atra pANiniH "svaH shabdaH" iti na upadishhTavAn, api tu "svaM rUpaM shabdasya" iti | shabdasa.nGYA-shabdayoH bhedam vadati khalu pANiniH | tatra shabda-sa.nGYAH prAtipadikAni iti jAnAtu mishela-mahodayaH | (Here "shabda" means "uttered sound", not a lexical or inflected word. Here the uttered sound is the "named", and in the science of grammar, its form indeed is its "name". Here pANini did not teach "The sound itself...", but rather taught "The form of the sound itself..." In fact, pANini is making a distinction between the sound and its technical name. Michel-mahodaya may know that the technical names of the sounds are lexical elements to be found in a dictionary.) "DaH si dhuT" iti Adishhu sthAneshhu vyApR^itAH yAH tAH shabdAnAM sa.nGYAH iti cha spashhTameva | (In the sUtra "DaH si dhuT" and elsewhere, it is clear that it is the names of the sounds that are used.) kechit vadishhyanti | mA maiva bhUt shabdaH arthavAn, tat-svarUpA sa.nGYA nishchyena arthavatI - tasyAH eva AdhyAtmiko arthaH vichArayAma | te tam artham pashyantu nirukte anyatra vA yathA upadishhTavAn Ananda-mishra-mahodayaH | na tu vyAkaraNe | sA shabda-rUpa-sa.nGYA tat-shabda-mAtram bodhayati iti spashhTam eva uktaM pANininA | (Some will say: Let the sounds themselves not be meaningful, but surely, theier exact-form names are meaningful. We ask for the spiritual meaning of those names. Let them seek those meanings in the nirukta or other locations as Ananda Mishra mahodaya says. But not in grammar. pANini has clearly said that the sound-form-name only stands for the sound itself.) namraH dhana.njayaH ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 13:08:37 -0600 From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 13 To: Michel Bostr?m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: sanskrit@cs.utah.edu Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii namaste Michel, > verse 5. Regardless of the source, and with the greatest possible respect > to ancient sages, there can be no etymology of the word "guru" that explains > its meaning of "teacher", since the primary meaning of the word is "heavy"; > and by extension "important", whence "important person" or "elder", and > specifically father, mother, etc; and finally "teacher". I think yours is a hasty and naive conclusion. How did you conclude that "heavy" is the *primary* meaning of guru and "dispeller of darkness" is the secondary meaning? What logic/evidence do you have to back it up? I heard a sanskrit scholar explaining that certain individual letters do have meanings that provide meaning to words formed out of them. This practice exists, and can be studied under vyaakaraNa, a part of the vedangas. So, at the most you can say, "I am unable to find the vyaakaraNa rule for this "gu+ru = guru" mechanism.". Otherwise I can put the same question mark on your claim that "heavy" is the primary meaning of guru. I have heard from acknowledged sanskrit scholars about sanskrit words for which there are multiple meanings that are widely different, all of which have been used equally frequently in prominent sanskrit texts by accomplished sanskrit pandits and poets including Kalidaasa. Sanskrit words get their meaning from dhaatus or root sounds. To be more precise, each root sound only gives what is called a "sense", not an absolute meaning set in stone for eternity. That is the sanskrit language's fundamental nature. This fluidity of the language is extremely prominent in Vedic sanskrit. That is why it has confounded so many western scholars when they tried to translate the Vedas into english, according to Sri Aurobindo. For instance, the word ashva is normally translated as horse. But the root sound is 'ash.h' which means swift-moving, which is also the root for aashu kavitva (extempore poetry). Rudra namakam, which is part of the yajurveda has mantras that use the same word 'ashva' to mean light rays, thoughts, horses, arrows at different places. So will you say that 'horse' is its primary meaning and the rest are derived? That is arbitrary. On another note, we should take the answers found by "googling" with a pinch of salt, because many folks who create webpages write what they think to be true without any real scholarship to back them up. We shouldn't take them as gospel. - Sai. Michel Bostr?m uvaacha: > On the "guru" example, I stand my ground. Googling "guru etymology" yielded > several such purported etymologies on the web, including the one that I had > heard, where "gu" means darkens and "ru", to dispel, so "guru" means > dispeller of darkness". The source given is Advayataraka Upanishad 14--18, > verse 5. Regardless of the source, and with the greatest possible respect > to ancient sages, there can be no etymology of the word "guru" that explains > its meaning of "teacher", since the primary meaning of the word is "heavy"; > and by extension "important", whence "important person" or "elder", and > specifically father, mother, etc; and finally "teacher". ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ sanskrit mailing list sanskrit@cs.utah.edu http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 42, Issue 16 ****************************************