I personally have also found this to be true regarding the long irons (2-5) with rifle shafts. The tour flighted and new project x rifles are not as bad as the original rifles, but even they play a bit stiffer (and more often produce lower trajectory) than the expected dynamic gold equivalent flex.
I also noticed the rifle short irons to be the opposite - too much flex/high trajectory than the equivalent DG. This may be a good thing for a higher hdcp player, but it was kinda frustrating for the better players - a set of shafts would result in ballooned short irons and long iron trajectories too low to have a prayer of holding greens. The worst of both worlds. Us taper tip users were forced to mix flexs to get the right trajectories - 5.0 to 5.5 in long irons up to 7.0 in short irons. A nightmare to get a set swingweighted, and obvious frequency issues, but at least the ballflight was correct. It seems they've fixed this with the project X - they produce very good ballflight. > > From: "Childers, Tedd A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2002/08/29 Thu AM 09:16:24 EDT > To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Flatline > > Mike and Cub, > > As a follow up to my last post regarding my current 2 CPM/club set-up, I > wanted to echo your thoughts on this subject. That same clubmaker that I > worked with in North Carolina had developed conversion charts for all the > shafts he worked with. All of his steel shafted demo clubs had Dynamic > shafts in them, and he also had a more limited set of graphite shafted demo > clubs using Apache PM40 shafts. If a player wanted Rifle shafts over > Dymanics, he would build at 10 CPM lower frequency than the Dynamic test > club. He also had a conversion from steel to Apache PM40 graphites, in case > the player was fitted with steel but decided to go with graphite, or in case > he didn't have the exact Apache graphite flex available in a test club (he > had irons at 2 CPM flex variation, but graphite at only 10 CPM range in some > cases). He also had worked out conversions for all of the standard graphite > wood shafts that he used, or might be requested due to popularity, since all > of the demo graphite wood shafts were Apache PM40s. For example, an Apache > PM40 driver at 250 CPM and 45" might equate to a Prolite 35 at 240 CPM or an > Apache Micro 58 at 255 CPM. All of these conversions were developed over > time by testing with very good players. > > Tedd > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve "Cub" Culbreth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:01 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Flatline > > > Mike, > > Excellent post! That's the kind of empirical data I am looking for. No need > to worry > about me using Rifles. I used them years ago and felt like I was using a > telephone pole. > > Another interesting question comes to mind... Why not make them all the same > length as > well? > > Cub > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Pogor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:08 PM > Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Flatline > > > > Cub, > > I've used flat-line clubs for the past ten years. My hdcp was 4 when I > > changed, and now hovers between 0 and 2. It is not all because of the > clubs, > > but I have been generally very happy with the feel and performance of my > > clubs. > > Some general observations of the differences: > > 1. The long irons are stiffer than a traditional set. I have found this to > > actually be one of the bigger advantages. I feel that I have more control > > with my long irons, I can swing them without worrying about the > directional > > aspect of the shots. I do not feel like I have lost much, if any, > distance. > > I would agree, however, that forged blades certainly offer less > forgiveness > > using this system! Generally, I use forged cavity back iron heads for > > myself. > > 2. The short irons are more flexible than a traditional set. The advantage > > that I have found is that slight misshits are more forgiving. With a > > traditional shaft flex, if I slightly misshit a shot with a wedge, I would > > lose more distance than I now do with my flat-line clubs. The disadvantage > > of flat-lining, however, is the fact that the short irons do tend to go > > higher, and generate more spin. Into the wind, there is more of a problem > of > > ballooning the ball, because of the extra spin. Knockdown shots are a > little > > more difficult to hit. On balance, though, I think that the benefits are > > worth the disadvantages. > > Through experimentation, I have found that the Rifle shafts seem to work > > best for me, because I find them a little easier to knock down, when I nee > d > > to. One thing that I must mention, however, is that the Rifle shaft plays > > about 8-9 cpm stiffer than a corresponding Dynamic shaft. In other words, > if > > you decide that a Dynamic shaft playing at 300 cpm is good for you, then > you > > should build the Rifle shafts at about 291-292 cpm. > > The other main advantage of flat-lining, in my opinion, is that it > > encourages you to swing the same way with all clubs. With a traditional > set, > > I felt that I had to swing my long irons more slowly and smoothly because > of > > their additional flex, and felt that I had to be more aggressive with the > > short irons, in order to get the shafts to flex sufficiently. That is no > > longer the case with flat-line clubs. > > If I were to experiment further, I could see possibly stiffening the short > > irons slightly, just so that it would be easier to keep the ball down. > > Generally, though, I am happy enough with the benefits of flat-lining to > > leave well enough alone. > > Hope this helps, > > Mike > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Steve "Cub" Culbreth > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:22 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: ShopTalk: Flatline > > > > > > I've discounted flat-line freq matching in the past but had a little time > to > > ponder it lately. Besides the fact that the short irons may hit longer and > > higher, wouldn't you lose control all the way around? I mean, using a > 4cpm > > slope we try to maintain the feel and playing flex throughout the set. If > > you flat-line a set based on your current 7-Iron freq, because you hit it > > the best, wouldn't you end up with long irons that are way too stiff and > > short irons way to soft? Seems a no-brainer to me, but I have to wonder. > > > > Have any of you played a flat-line set? Have any of you played a set with > > only 2cpm of slope throughout? > > > > I'd like to hear your thoughts before I get too tempted to test the > > principle. > > > > TIA, > > > > Cub > > > > > > > > > > LEGAL NOTICE > Unless expressly stated otherwise, this message is confidential and may be >privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. Access to this E-mail by anyone >else is unauthorized. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure or copying of the >contents of this E-mail or any action taken (or not taken) in reliance on it is >unauthorized and may be unlawful. If you are not an addressee, please inform the >sender immediately. >
