Hi Dave and Burgess For a lot of companies ISO registration is not worth the paper it's written on. Just got back from Georgia, USA where I assessed a QS-9000 / ISO-9002 company. It got registered about 2 months ago and we found 66 opportunities for improvement, 35 Non-conformances, and 9 Major Non-conformances > and we were easy on them. Calibration of gauges was changed to appear to registrar that they were not due yet. Several parts they shipped had a history over 6 months of 90% out of specification shipped. Their quality mgr. couldn't argue an interpretation so he said they were "registered", and I damn near laughed out loud. One of their major depts/processes was missing all documents. In many cases, I'm sorry to say, 3rd party registration is a bought and paid for relationship. Many companies have people writing procedures and conducting audits and fewer or no people reducing variation and waste (or actively improving process and product quality). ISO is no guarantee of level of outgoing product quality. And no, I haven't tried the Monarks. In other words, BUYER BEWARE !!! Harry F. Schiestel, CQA (Cert. Qtly Auditor and National Qlty Examiner) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-shoptalk@;mail.msen.com]On Behalf Of Dave Tutelman Sent: October 11, 2002 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Inexpensive stepless steel shafts Burgess, We're 100% in agreement On ISO 9000. And I understand your "maybe". And no, I haven't tried the Monarks. But I have tried the Patriots, and wonder why nobody has mentioned them in this thread. They aren't as inexpensive as the others, but they aren't as expensive as the Rifles, either. In my limited experience with the Patriots, they are remarkably similar to the Balistik -- which I believe was the intent. And I like the Balistik, so I like the Patriot as well. Cheers! DaveT ----- Original Message ----- From: Burgess Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 5:19 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Inexpensive stepless steel shafts > At 03:48 PM 10/11/2002, DaveT wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Burgess Howell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:16 PM > > > > > Have you tried the Tru Power Stepless from Monark? They mention ISO9002 > > > compliance on their site. Maybe the tolerances are better than the Eltas. > > > >I have always been somewhere between skeptical and hysterical when it comes > >to ISO 9000 compliance. ISO 9000 was intended to assure quality, but all it > >does is assure adherence to some process -- whatever the manufacturer > >decides is his/her process. > > I choose my words pretty carefully. You'll note that I did say "maybe" > which implies "maybe not" as well. > > >I've exaggerated and simplified, but only a trifle. I've worked for ISO-9000 > >and non-9000 organizations. The ISO organizations certainly had a lot more > >formality in their process. Sometimes that led to better quality, and > >occasionally to worse quality. The correlation was not really strong. > > Having gone through the ISO certification process 7 times in the last 9 > years, I can vouch for what you say wrt quality. > > It seems to me that, from a 'grunt in the trenches' pov, ISO cert is > primarily a system of *greatly* increasing the burden of the documentation > process, and making sure everyone knows the correct catch phrases to parrot > when the ISO auditor comes by for a snap (wink,wink) inspection. > > Obladee, obladah... > > So, has anyone tried those Monark shafts? > > Burgess >
