Bill You must be very careful with this type of design!!!!! I re-designed one of my skeeters to thermal from an "at rest" position on the ground and it became a big problem. When I would lay it down at the end of a flight it would take off again. Finally lost it though. Got to laying it upside down so it wouldn't fly away. One time I left it lay that way while we went for lunch and when I got back there was nothing but a hole in the ground. I'm not sure where it finally ended up but shortly after that one of the guys on the list from Australia reported seeing a glider pop out of the ground and fly away. Guess I'll have to check with Tord and see if anything has turned up in the Harbor. Denny Maize RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]