Ken,
It boils down to performance. The desired performance is simple, keep a fire
from spreading into adjacent units for two hours. It's really that simple.
There are two other ways of looking at this.
First, If these were two separate structures the code would require them to
be separated by at
You make reference to incompatibility with some UL listed products.
I think UL is developing a cedibility problem.
UL lists smoke detectors which independent testing shows do not work in
a fire. When questioned, UL vigorously defends their listing of the ion
smoke detectors as fire officials acro
I am only familiar with WA State, but "condo" is partial ownership term, not an
architectural term. I am familiar in the city I work in with condo's similar to
Ron's description, condo's that meet the new townhouse definition, and condos
that are detached, and look similar to single family dwel
Having read this string of emails it is like the story of the eight
blind me describing an elephant. We all know what we know and feel but
only have some of the picture and my biggest single complaint with CPVC
is all the manufacturers have enjoyed cashing the checks of contractors
who buy their p
George, you are correct at events at Stouffers. Executives of a major firm
having a meeting at Stouffers as fire started got disoriented and instead of
exiting were found dead in a closet. Bill Marriott started the retrofit after
he saw Managers from MGM, Hilton Stouffers and Beverly Hills Sup
Correction at 1 PSI it is .02 GPM. But you get the idea.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
P.O. Box 882136
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
Tel: 970-879-7952
Fax: 970-879-7926
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun..
The owner of this building had an 8" underground pipe burst. Then he
took it upon himself to utilize an abandoned existing 6" fire service
adjacent to the building. The original 8" fire service was located
directly in front of building 'A' and ran directly under the building
with the riser lo
Yep more attic than roof but I'm sure I'm adding semantics. Common attic
good chance to lose the block. Something, anything dividing the attic and a
good chance to stop it at 1 unit. Been to both.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-4
For those of you Easterners that understand Row Houses Balt./Phila. And most
eastern cities built before 1940, you have seen a hundred times on the news
a Row House fire that just gutted the structure. You'll also have noted that
those that do extend the damage to the next house usually do so becau
The difference between a 5.6K orifice and a 5.62K is only .20 GPM @ 100 PSI,
so unless your calculating discharge at very high pressures who cares.
Conversely at 1PSI the difference is only .01 GPM. See we start using
computers that carry every calculation to 3 decimal places and that is the
level
As I've attended several of Steve's presentations, and those of "Others" I've
gained the basic insight that while our fire sprinkler systems are there for
the protection of the occupant's and property owner, they become the end user.
Except for some very special industrial cases the end user of
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John,
Unless I misunderstood your post, does this boil down to ICC definitions?
FIRE-RESISTANCE RATING. The period of time a building element, component or
assembly maintains the ability to confine a fire, continues to perform a
given structural function, or both, as determined by the tests, or
Hmmm,
2006 IRC
R317.2 Townhouses. Each townhouse shall be considered a separate
building and shall be separated by fire--resistance-rated wall
assemblies meeting the requirements of Section R302 for exterior walls.
R302.1 Exterior walls. Construction, projections, openings and
penetrations of ex
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Of course once we get the new IRC intact with the sprinkler provisions
the separation rating goes down to 1-hr for townhouses.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Roland Huggins
wrote:
> There you go - just a rated partition and not a fire wall.
>
> I'll either have to call Ken - John Jr or just ref
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There you go - just a rated partition and not a fire wall.
I'll either have to call Ken - John Jr or just reference having the
code boys to get'er done
Roland
On Nov 5, 2009, at 12:25 PM, Ken Holsopple (forum) wrote:
> Roland -
>
>> From the IRC 2006
>
> Under Section R317 Dwelling Unit Seper
Section 5.4.1.3 identifies that a combined standpipe/sprinkler riser
can be manual wet for the standpipe and automatic for the sprinkler
system. Also discussed in the annex. This does not apply to a high-
rise though since 5.4.1.1 is still applicable which requires an
automatic wet.
Keep
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Roland -
>From the IRC 2006
Under Section R317 Dwelling Unit Seperation
R317.2 Townhouses.
Each townhouse shall be considered a separate building and shall be
separated by fire--resistance-rated wall assemblies meeting the requirements
of Section R302 for exterior walls.
Exception: A common 2-
Have no idea of the common wall construction, but the rest of the
structure is wood frame.
At 03:08 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>I don't think townhouses are required to have FIRE WALLS. John - what
>do say Have to suspect your 100 to 200 year old masonary walls
>may do the job.
>
>Roland
>
>
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I don't think townhouses are required to have FIRE WALLS. John - what
do say Have to suspect your 100 to 200 year old masonary walls
may do the job.
Roland
On Nov 5, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Todd Williams wrote:
> We have some single family homes in town with common walls, that were
> built
I did a shooting range at a NRC facility a few years back. The lanes
were sprinklered up to approximately 50 ft from the end wall.
At 02:11 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>We have a shooting range that is pondering converting an existing
>storage building into an indoor shooting range. This will be d
All that old stuff needs to be bulldozed and replaced by those safe,
new NAHB structures that don't need sprinklers.
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Todd Williams wrote:
> We have some single family homes in town with common walls, that were
> built in to 1800s. Doubt if they are fire walls.
>
>
You just described a townhouse that I own and rent to you. How would
renting change the townhouseness of the arrangement. Condos do not
necessarily have 2-hr rated walls between them. Condos do not
necessarily have rated walls extending from the foundation through the
roof. Townhouses do not have o
IFC 903.2.1.3 might give you some leeway on sprinkler over the lanes as you
say. If you are just worried about bullets the 2 I've been involved with
had baffles to protect the "stuff" in the lanes.
Chris Cahill, P.E.
Fire Protection Engineer
Sentry Fire Protection, Inc.
763-658-4483
763-658-49
We have some single family homes in town with common walls, that were
built in to 1800s. Doubt if they are fire walls.
At 02:01 PM 11/5/2009, you wrote:
>What if they were SFDs with common party walls, rated sufficiently, and
>RENTED?
>
>-Original Message-
>From: sprinklerforum-boun...@f
If it is deep enough to impede heat flow (now defined as greater than
4 inches) then it is obstructed. The beams are not an issue impacting
heat flow and are only obstructions to sprinkler discharge.
Roland
On Nov 5, 2009, at 8:05 AM,
wrote:
> I don't remember the outcome of the discuss
If you're "proving" this pipe schedule system to current standards
then you would use the nominal 5.6 that all 5.6 range heads use now.
The real question though, as someone mentioned yesterday, is why are
you being required to "prove" a pipe schedule system?
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:21 AM, George
iresprinkler.org
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keep in mind that the pressure rating of the device has to be greater
than the pressure it is exposed to and not simply what the pump churns
at. Obviously it impacts the devices at the pump but elevation is
deducted when looking at the remainder of the system.
Roland
On Nov 5, 2009, at 4:5
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We have a shooting range that is pondering converting an existing storage
building into an indoor shooting range. This will be done with some sort of
prefabricated panels that will be installed in the building. Due to the change
in Use Group, our local ordinance will require the installation of
I thought reliable F1FR were 5.62 but checked there data sheet and
noticed 5.6. I was told that a project had 5.62 heads that I had to
make a proof calc for but now the plan checker wants to know the make
and model.
George Medina Jr
Sr. Fire Sprinkler Designer
808-351-3987
On Nov 4, 2009, a
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I'll jump in on that one, but from a California perspective. First of
all, I can't think of anything in 13D that says you can't do that;
Figures A.6.2.(a) and (b) insinuate (to me, at least) that you could
make an arrangement of multiple systems off of a single fire service so
long as you provide
rg
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What if they were SFDs with common party walls, rated sufficiently, and
RENTED?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Drucker
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:40 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firespr
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