Ames will sell you a preassembled backflow with a PIV valve. It just adds a lead time to the order.
-----Original Message----- From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Sent: Tue, Dec 4, 2018 5:50 pm Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV Yeah, they’re exactly the same valve guts and exactly the same take-out and exactly the same everything-else-functionally but if you swap the factory assembled valve out for another one the USC approval goes “POOF!”. That’s why my question yesterday was whether anyone knew of a device that was sold new with a PIV gate valve … from the factory. They are listed exactly as they are tested, which is very time-consuming and expensive. USC tests entail pressure testing (forward and backward) and a one-year continuous service test and they have to fully test both butterfly and gate valve versions. Not sure if it’s required to separately test all the possible combinations of shut-off valves and horizontal, vertical, “N” and “Z” patterns. Steve L. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]On Behalf Of Pete Schwab Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 5:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV Ron, That would be acceptable unless the water purveyor requires a USC approved device. I don’t believe that arrangement has been through USC Peter Schwab VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. 222 Capitol Court Ocoee, Fl 34761 Mobile: (407) 468-8248 Direct: (407) 877-5570 Fax: (407) 656-8026 www.waynefire.com I sleep in a sprinklered home, do you? From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 7:42 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV I once took a look at a Kennedy OS&Y, an NRS, they type where you use the 2" square key to operate and a yard PIV. The main valve body and the discs were the same part number in all cases. The difference had to do with whether it was a gland or stuffing box bonnet, and the parts used in the operating mechanism. In the case of the square nut gate valve the only difference was the post parts themselves. At yet... Ron Greenman rongreen...@gmail.com 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-) On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 2:45 PM Pete Schwab <pe...@waynefire.com> wrote: Steve I have never seen one. Pete From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 5:08 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV Any suppliers or others on this thread that know if a backflow appliance can be ordered with a listed PIV on the owner’s side? Steve From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 2:04 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV Typically the reason is both, (1) to be able to control sprinkler flow from outside the bldg. and (2) to verify that the water supply is available. I can’t speak to whether or not the non-indicating valve should be removed, that would be a decision by the AHJ. But its presence in the system creates risk if it is not inspected daily to ensure it is always in the open position. Craig Prahl|Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | craig.pr...@jacobs.com| www.jacobs.com From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 4:50 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV So, in that case, would they be required to eliminate the non-indicating gate valve? Or just add the PIV? I mean, if the gate valve is closed, it really doesn’t matter what position the PIV is in. I know there are some jurisdictions in Nevada where we’ve been required to provide wall PIVs for the system control valves. But I’m not 100% certain what their intent was in requiring it. Is it about knowing if the valve is open or closed, or is it about being able to control it from the building exterior? -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]On Behalf Of Prahl, Craig/GVL Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 2:27 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: PIV NFPA 24 calls for indicating type valves on water supplies serving sprinklers. Non-indicating type valves for sprinkler water control are permitted only when approved by the AHJ. So it’s totally within the right of the AHJ to require a PIV outside the room on the UG run-in. In some cases when there is no place to install a PIV, sometimes the AHJ has allowed a Wall Post Indicator Valve to be used. Craig Prahl|Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | craig.pr...@jacobs.com| www.jacobs.com From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>On Behalf Of Bruce Verhei Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 3:47 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: To follow JD’s comment, new or existing would to me be the big question. Or said another way, if new, why weren’t approved plans followed? Best. Bruce Verhei On Dec 3, 2018, at 12:10, Matt Grise <m...@afpsprink.com> wrote: There is a city we work in where every building must have a PIV. I don’t know if that is in the code, but the fire department won’t approve a system without one. Matt From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>On Behalf Of Randy Huffman Sent: Monday, December 03, 2018 2:06 PM To: Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: We have a riser room at the rear of a building. An exterior door opens to interior of riser room which contains a backflow preventer with two indicating control valves, a rise check valve, and a water flow switch. Underground line to building has a nonindicating gate valve in roadway box some distance from door to riser room. AJH says a post indicator valve must be installed outside riser room. We believe the current arrangement of piping and valves meets the standard without the PIV Please comment. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. 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