Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On 8 March 2018 at 15:58, Sam Whited wrote: > I thought we were specifically voting to obsolete (because this was about > wide spread security issues); the minutes do say "deprecate", but we kept > mixing up the terminology. I hate our process. > PRs to XEP-0001 welcome. :-) > Can other counci

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On 3/8/18 8:58 AM, Sam Whited wrote: > I thought we were specifically voting to obsolete (because this was about > wide spread security issues); the minutes do say "deprecate", but we kept > mixing up the terminology. I hate our process. The process is typically that we deprecate first and then

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

I thought we were specifically voting to obsolete (because this was about wide spread security issues); the minutes do say "deprecate", but we kept mixing up the terminology. I hate our process. Can other council members weigh in with what they thought we were doing? —Sam On Thu, Mar 8, 2018,

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 08.03.2018, 14:15, "Jonas Wielicki" :On Donnerstag, 8. März 2018 10:38:55 CET Kozlov Konstantin wrote: Hello! 08.03.2018, 12:18, "Dave Cridland" : The personal choice of Council was to deprecate XHTML-IM based on these facts. The previous Council decided to ensure there we

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On Donnerstag, 8. März 2018 10:38:55 CET Kozlov Konstantin wrote: > Hello! > > 08.03.2018, 12:18, "Dave Cridland" : > The personal choice of Council was to deprecate XHTML-IM based on > these facts. The previous Council decided to ensure there were > alternates for XHTML-IM use-cases instead of d

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On 8 March 2018 at 10:54, Manuel Rubio wrote: > Hi guys, > > I usually only read to understand and learn but sometimes I head up and > freak out with some decision. I usually read RFC and when a new one is > released it supersedes, deprecates or obsoletes another one. But, the status > of that RFC

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hi guys, I usually only read to understand and learn but sometimes I head up and freak out with some decision. I usually read RFC and when a new one is released it supersedes, deprecates or obsoletes another one. But, the status of that RFC usually is definitive. Obviously it's definitive unt

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 08.03.2018, 12:58, "Goffi" :Le mercredi 7 mars 2018, 19:21:45 CET Kozlov Konstantin a écrit :  Thank you for your reply. Yes, I know about those two. As for XEP-0394, I feel so bad the XEP idea, so I don't even want to discuss the XEP itself.Out of curiousity, what do you dislike in this XEP

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Le mercredi 7 mars 2018, 19:21:45 CET Kozlov Konstantin a écrit : > Thank you for your reply. Yes, I know about those two. As for XEP-0394, I > feel so bad the XEP idea, so I don't even want to discuss the XEP > itself. Out of curiousity, what do you dislike in this XEP? I actually find the idea

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 08.03.2018, 12:18, "Dave Cridland" :The personal choice of Council was to deprecate XHTML-IM based onthese facts. The previous Council decided to ensure there werealternates for XHTML-IM use-cases instead of deprecating.Deprecating is not a serious problem. The probleb is that they are obsol

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On 8 March 2018 at 08:34, Evgeny Khramtsov wrote: > TL;DR: I conclude that the only argument is that XML is a bit more > secure (with possibly less possible holes, lol). So, as I thought, this > is purely a matter of personal choice and not a technical decision, > that's why we debated about it so

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 08.03.2018, 10:52, "Jonas Wielicki" :In contrast to XML, XHTML-IM is a custom thing which needs to be re-implemented in ~every client. Well-known XML libraries exist for mostlanguages (even if they only FFI to libxml2 or libexpat).According to my experience, building a XHTML processor using

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Thu, 08 Mar 2018 08:51:26 +0100 Jonas Wielicki wrote: > How many XMPP clients have you seen which were owned by Billion > Laughs (which uses entities which are explicitly forbidden in RFC6120 > and trivial to turn off in all XML parsers I’ve seen so far) compared > to the amount of XMPP clients S

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On Donnerstag, 8. März 2018 07:54:04 CET Evgeny Khramtsov wrote: > Wed, 07 Mar 2018 21:33:13 +0300 > > Kozlov Konstantin wrote: > > So, the only reason to obsolete the XEP is not the XEP itself, but > > bad implementations? > > Yes. This is kinda religion among some Council members that if a > t

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Am 07.03.2018 um 19:18 schrieb Jonas Wielicki: > I started to work on > [XEP-0394] (Message Markup) which intends to do a bit more, with a more > flexible approach. Note that I intend to overhaul XEP-0394 and I don’t know > of > any implementations. FYI: I implemented it for Smack :) https://

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Wed, 07 Mar 2018 21:33:13 +0300 Kozlov Konstantin wrote: > So, the only reason to obsolete the XEP is not the XEP itself, but > bad implementations? Yes. This is kinda religion among some Council members that if a technology can be misused then it should be deprecated. Their religion is, however

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018, at 12:33, Kozlov Konstantin wrote: > So, the only reason to obsolete the XEP is not the XEP itself, but bad > implementations? In a sense. Fixing the existing broken implementation doesn't fix the underlying problem though. It's more about the fact that any tiny mistake when

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 07.03.2018, 19:19, "Guus der Kinderen" :Primarily due to security concerns. There's a lot of discussion available in the mail archive. This is a good place to start: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-October/033546.html Thank you! I just read the message. I never thought that

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 07.03.2018, 21:20, "Jonas Wielicki" :As for an replacement, it depends on your use-case. There’s [XEP-0393](Message Styling) which should cover many IM use-cases. I started to work on[XEP-0394] (Message Markup) which intends to do a bit more, with a moreflexible approach. Note that I intend

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Hello! 07.03.2018, 19:18, "Jonas Wielicki" :On 7 March 2018 17:13:26 CET, Kozlov Konstantin wrote:___Standards mailing listInfo: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standardsUnsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org__

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Due to popular request, I’m going to re-post the reply I gave earlier on GitHub: The core reason is that it caused quite a few XSS vulnerabilities. There are lengthy threads on the standars mailing list: * starting with Security issues with XHTML-IM (again) [1] * some discussion on replacement

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

 Hello! 07.03.2018, 19:55, "Sam Whited" :On Wed, Mar 7, 2018, at 10:13, Kozlov Konstantin wrote: Yes, this XEP has its disadvantages, but almos all of modern clients do implement it and there is no XEP right now, which can substitute it.TL;DR — almost all of modern clients that implement it impleme

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018, at 10:13, Kozlov Konstantin wrote: > Yes, this XEP has its disadvantages, but almos all of modern clients do > implement it and there is no XEP right now, which can substitute it. TL;DR — almost all of modern clients that implement it implement it in an insecure manner (whic

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Primarily due to security concerns. There's a lot of discussion available in the mail archive. This is a good place to start: https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-October/033546.html On 7 March 2018 at 17:13, Kozlov Konstantin wrote: > I wonder, why this one was obsoleted? > Yes, thi

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

On 7 March 2018 17:13:26 CET, Kozlov Konstantin wrote: >___ >Standards mailing list >Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards >Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org >___ cf. https://githu

Re: [Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

I wonder, why this one was obsoleted?Yes, this XEP has its disadvantages, but almos all of modern clients do implement it and there is no XEP right now, which can substitute it. 28.02.2018, 21:24, "Jonas Wielicki (XSF Editor)" :Version 1.5.3 of XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM) has been released.Abstract:This sp

[Standards] OBSOLETED: XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM)

Version 1.5.3 of XEP-0071 (XHTML-IM) has been released. Abstract: This specification defines an XHTML 1.0 Integration Set for use in exchanging instant messages that contain lightweight text markup. The protocol enables an XMPP entity to format a message using a small range of commonly-used HTML e