As a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:David_Haslam Wikipedian , I
definitely second that.
-- David
Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>
>
>
> If Wikipedia would rigidly enforce its increasingly arcane standards on
> how a good article should look like by simply deleting valid, but less
> then perfect
Am 26.11.2008 um 23:31 schrieb Greg Hellings:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Chris Little
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Matthew Talbert wrote:
>>> I would just like to point out again that there is very little
>>> transparency in how bugs are updated and fixed in modules. Neither
>>
Greg Hellings wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Matthew Talbert wrote:
>>> I would just like to point out again that there is very little
>>> transparency in how bugs are updated and fixed in modules. Neither
>>> does it appear to happen quick
Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> Peter von Kaehne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> And would only be really relevant if these modules were static and
>> never be updated. But they are not static and they do get updated.
>
> Often (usually!) within minutes of being informed of problems.
11 months ago, I
Chris Little wrote:
>
> Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
>> Spare us the "they're not *really* ThML" whining. I don't care that
>> they're specifically ThML. When I first started producing Sword modules
>> 2 years ago, I was using GBF.
>
> The issue is you're too lazy to even run tidy on your HTML.
I g
> I don't know the filters well, but surely if there is really a need it
> should be possible for frontends to plug their own URL reference
> structure into the filter? Something like: they provide a function
> which takes a key and a module and converts it into a URL. Then the
> passagestudy cou
> The issue is you're too lazy to even run tidy on your HTML.
This is really going way too far.
> take you 10 seconds to run and would give you nice valid XHTML as a
> basis to work from. As it is, you have elements like lying about,
> which are not valid within ThML and will cause problems for
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Ben Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is how I would do it/it should be done:
>
> For internal links in OSIS:
> In:
> Text
> Out (For osishtmlhref):
> href="passagestudy.jsp?action=moduleRef&value=encoded_key&module=module">Text
>
> Vary the passagestudy str
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Matthew Talbert wrote:
>> I would just like to point out again that there is very little
>> transparency in how bugs are updated and fixed in modules. Neither
>> does it appear to happen quickly. For example, someone rep
Here is how I would do it/it should be done:
For internal links in OSIS:
In:
Text
Out (For osishtmlhref):
Text
Vary the passagestudy string according to taste - especially moduleRef
If module == "self", use the current module.
If a link starts with Bible: or has no : in it, the existing referenc
Matthew Talbert wrote:
> I would just like to point out again that there is very little
> transparency in how bugs are updated and fixed in modules. Neither
> does it appear to happen quickly. For example, someone reported a bug
> (several bugs) in the ISBE module to the sword-support list 4 days
Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> Spare us the "they're not *really* ThML" whining. I don't care that
> they're specifically ThML. When I first started producing Sword modules
> 2 years ago, I was using GBF.
The issue is you're too lazy to even run tidy on your HTML. It might
take you 10 seconds to ru
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Eeli Kaikkonen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting Greg Hellings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>>
>> Likewise. People (I think Chris is one of the leading people, but I
>> might be mistaken on that) ought to stop advocating usage of OSIS
>> references for the time bein
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Karl Kleinpaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter von Kaehne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> And would only be really relevant if these modules were static and
>> never be updated. But they are not static and they do get updated.
>
> Often (usually!) within minute
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:15 AM, Peter von Kaehne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris Little wrote:
>> then updating the module repeatedly until we
>> finally find a good markup standard, we can get things right the first
>> time
>
>
> That is a totally wrong approach on so many levels. It holds us
Peter von Kaehne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If someone brings us a good text to include, then we should be able to
> say - "here, it works" and then gradualy improve it to make it better,
> richer and more conforming to whatever lofty standards we want to achieve.
That is precisely how my Train
Peter von Kaehne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And would only be really relevant if these modules were static and
> never be updated. But they are not static and they do get updated.
Often (usually!) within minutes of being informed of problems.
___
sw
Matthew Talbert wrote:
> I would just like to add that some short examples of how to use OSIS
> and TEI for dictionaries would be very helpful. By examples I just
> mean a few entire entries done with different options with comments
> explaining what was going on. Linking to the TEI page doesn't he
Jonathan Morgan wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Karl Kleinpaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I DO NOT CARE if they meet some standard of perfection. IT DOES NOT
>> MATTER if they validate. IT IS OF NO RELEVANCE that they're not clean.
>
> Unless, of course, they do not work in any fr
"Jonathan Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Unless, of course, they do not work in any frontend at all other than
> Gnomesword.
I have BibleCS. I check my modules in it. They work.
If you see problems, tell me.
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On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Karl Kleinpaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Spare us the "they're not *really* ThML" whining. I don't care that
> they're specifically ThML. When I first started producing Sword modules
> 2 years ago, I was using GBF.
>
> The only important distinctions about my
Spare us the "they're not *really* ThML" whining. I don't care that
they're specifically ThML. When I first started producing Sword modules
2 years ago, I was using GBF.
The only important distinctions about my modules are:
- They work.
- They get out readily to people who want them.
- They pro
On Nov 25, 2008, at 11:12 PM, Matthew Talbert wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>>> Since Chris already answered the second one - OSIS has the
>>> tag
>>> - can we just add the osisRef-to-URI and be done with it? I've
>>> messed
>>> ar
Quoting Greg Hellings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Likewise. People (I think Chris is one of the leading people, but I
> might be mistaken on that) ought to stop advocating usage of OSIS
> references for the time being. They accomplish nothing, since they
> produce nonsense out the other end, being
Chris Little wrote:
> then updating the module repeatedly until we
> finally find a good markup standard, we can get things right the first
> time
That is a totally wrong approach on so many levels. It holds us back all
the time, makes for module production times in years rather than weeks,
dri
Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> ThML has value primarily as a way of incorporating materials from CCEL
>
> There are 30-odd ThML modules in my repository produced in the last ~18
> months -- on average, nearly a module every 2 weeks -- only 2 of which
> are CCE
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Since Chris already answered the second one - OSIS has the tag
>> - can we just add the osisRef-to-URI and be done with it? I've messed
>> around in the OSIS filters a bit with my mod2osis edits, and this
>> could eas
> Since Chris already answered the second one - OSIS has the tag
> - can we just add the osisRef-to-URI and be done with it? I've messed
> around in the OSIS filters a bit with my mod2osis edits, and this
> could easily be added to the logic in there in a few minutes. What
> other features do yo
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Karl Kleinpaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> None of this requires engine changes, but rather that we extend the
>> historical conceptual idea of a reference beyond bible:key.
>> This is a frontend change. Just as gnomesword decomposes a reference
>> from ThML swo
Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Like it or not, OSIS & TEI are the future for us.
I have no dislike for it in concept. I just don't want to use it much,
so long as I get less capability from it, for the work I need to do.
> ThML has value primarily as a way of incorporating materials
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Matthew Talbert wrote:
>>> Assuming that GnomeSword uses the stock HTMLHREF filters and assuming
>>> that they want to use the private protocol URIs for linking, then yes
>>> this would need to be added into the OSISHTML
Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> Also, I know no reason why a module shouldn't have completely external-
> to-the-app http:// references, not just internal-to-other-docs refs.
> Can OSIS provide that kind of linkage? ThML can, and does, and I use
> it. (Recent gains with gnome_open_url() have me experi
> So it sounds to me that:
> The new alternate versification code should be moved to a branch (or create
> a 1.5.12 branch from 1.5.11) and then release 1.5.12 with:
> - Better TEI support
> - osisref links
> - OSISRuby
> - Other bug fixes (for a start, BPBible 0.4 binaries will ship with the
> pat
Matthew Talbert wrote:
>> Assuming that GnomeSword uses the stock HTMLHREF filters and assuming
>> that they want to use the private protocol URIs for linking, then yes
>> this would need to be added into the OSISHTMLHREF and TEIHTMLHREF.
>
> GnomeSword uses the stock HTMLREF filters. Why would
> So why can't sword:// be the method used?
I'm sorry I forgot that passagestudy was the internal uri format
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On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> Assuming that GnomeSword uses the stock HTMLHREF filters and assuming
> that they want to use the private protocol URIs for linking, then yes
> this would need to be added into the OSISHTMLHREF and TEIHTMLHREF.
>
> If it use
"Troy A. Griffitts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I understand why Karl uses ThML-- because gnomesword supports it.
Troy, I'm sorry, but that's not correct, and that's not my point.
I use ThML because it provides what I need. Now. Fast. My newest
module, TrainTwelve, looks fine in BibleCS, t
> Assuming that GnomeSword uses the stock HTMLHREF filters and assuming
> that they want to use the private protocol URIs for linking, then yes
> this would need to be added into the OSISHTMLHREF and TEIHTMLHREF.
GnomeSword uses the stock HTMLREF filters. Why would they be there if
not to be used?
Matthew Talbert wrote:
>> Frontend developers simply need to be on the lookout for
>> osisRef="Josephus:Ant.1.8.2" and know how to handle that themselves.
>> That may simply entail converting it to > href="sword://Josephus/%2Ant%2F1%2F8%2F2"> in the case of GnomeSword.
>> (And the same for TEI: .
> Frontend developers simply need to be on the lookout for
> osisRef="Josephus:Ant.1.8.2" and know how to handle that themselves.
> That may simply entail converting it to href="sword://Josephus/%2Ant%2F1%2F8%2F2"> in the case of GnomeSword.
> (And the same for TEI: .
So the html filter will spit
[Sorry, I sent this earlier, but from the wrong address, so it didn't
get through, and may show up again if Troy lets it through the queue.]
Matthew Talbert wrote:
>> What really needs to be done, is to finalize how we are going to use
>> osisRefs.
>> I'd like to see modules being able to contain
[Sorry, I sent this earlier, but from the wrong address, so it didn't
get through, and may show up again if Troy lets it through the queue.]
Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> And what's worse, there exists a standard reference system for
>> Josephus, that we wou
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Jonathan Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> A few probably-abrasive (pre-apologies) comments on this thread.
>
> ...
>
>> support for external links:
>>
>> There is currently no pr
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Troy A. Griffitts
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A few probably-abrasive (pre-apologies) comments on this thread.
...
> support for external links:
>
> There is currently no programmatic features in the engine which help or
> hinder external links. Historically th
A few probably-abrasive (pre-apologies) comments on this thread.
OSIS is not meant for display layout markup.
Since our engine supports multiple output formats, screen sizes, layout
methodologies, etc., our module data should not be marked up in display
layout markup.
I understand why Karl use
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The point I was making was not that you can't encode it, but you lose the
>> semantic significance of it. The user can tell that test was added,
>> but the program can't - unless that is the only way is ever used - whic
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> > The point I was making was not that you can't encode it, but you lose the
> > semantic significance of it. The user can tell that test was
> added,
> > but the program can't - unless that is the only way is ever used
> The point I was making was not that you can't encode it, but you lose the
> semantic significance of it. The user can tell that test was added,
> but the program can't - unless that is the only way is ever used - which
> it isn't. If you use italic formatting for anything else, you have lost
> i
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Ben Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Greg Hellings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> None. Information is all relative to the context. You lose no
>> information if you encode printed KJV italics terms with , ,
>> or . It sti
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Greg Hellings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> None. Information is all relative to the context. You lose no
> information if you encode printed KJV italics terms with , ,
> or . It still means the exact same thing -
> the enclosed text was added by translators and
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The advantage of this, I suppose, is that your cross-references could
>> be converted to OSIS refs later. The disadvantage would come if you
>> lose other information when encoding in OSIS, as Ben suggested.
>
> What in
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> > The advantage of this, I suppose, is that your cross-references could
> > be converted to OSIS refs later. The disadvantage would come if you
> > lose other information when encoding in OSIS, as Ben suggested.
>
> What
> The advantage of this, I suppose, is that your cross-references could
> be converted to OSIS refs later. The disadvantage would come if you
> lose other information when encoding in OSIS, as Ben suggested.
What information would I lose? I'm new at this, so that's an honest
question. The only fo
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Matthew Talbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What really needs to be done, is to finalize how we are going to use
>> osisRefs.
>> I'd like to see modules being able to contain some mapping from osis ids to
>> display names. I don't show the user Gen.2.2 in my appli
> What really needs to be done, is to finalize how we are going to use
> osisRefs.
> I'd like to see modules being able to contain some mapping from osis ids to
> display names. I don't show the user Gen.2.2 in my application (or
> /Gen/2/2), why should I show them Ant.1.8.2 or (/Ant/1/8/2)?
While
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 6:46 AM, Karl Kleinpaste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> All you do is to convince me, again and again, not to generate OSIS.
>
> I absolutely do not care if it wouldn't pass muster "within an osisRef
> attribute." It passes muster NOW in ThML TODAY, because what I generate
>
Chris Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And what's worse, there exists a standard reference system for
> Josephus, that we would probably want to use for linking to it...
> Ultimately, you would want to encode a link to the above reference as
> some text.
> Linking with that would require remaki
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