Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, 07.03.11 18:00, Dr. Werner Fink (wer...@suse.de) wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 05:21:36PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Mon, 07.03.11 17:14, Dr. Werner Fink (wer...@suse.de) wrote: > > > > > > Hmmm ... AFAIK RedHat has not left the Linux Foundation, does this > > > mean th

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 05:21:36PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 07.03.11 17:14, Dr. Werner Fink (wer...@suse.de) wrote: > > > > Hmmm ... AFAIK RedHat has not left the Linux Foundation, does this > > mean that RedHat will ignore the results of the LSB working group? > > Fedora has ne

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, 07.03.11 17:14, Dr. Werner Fink (wer...@suse.de) wrote: > > > It has to be possible to fulfill FHS not only in theory but > > > in practice.  That is that if an network interface has to up > > > for the NFS share /usr then systemd should support this. > > > > The 1000ths time: it has noth

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 17:14, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: > On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:50:16PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:44, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: >> > >> > Those customers have payed for support including this feature >> > and some of them exactly for this feature.  I'm

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, 07.03.11 16:44, Dr. Werner Fink (wer...@suse.de) wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:18:16PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:04, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: > > > > > > Hmmm ... AFAIK we do.  If things do not work, then it has to be fixed > > > as we have users/custo

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:50:16PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote: > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:44, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: > > > > Those customers have payed for support including this feature > > and some of them exactly for this feature.  I'm not going to > > ignore this hard requirement for snugness.

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, 07.03.11 16:04, Dr. Werner Fink (wer...@suse.de) wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 05:09:03PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Fri, 25.02.11 13:35, Adam Spragg (a...@spra.gg) wrote: > > > > > > > > On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:00:51 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: > > > > Commit > > > > htt

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:44, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: > On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:18:16PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:04, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: >> > >> > Hmmm ... AFAIK we do.  If things do not work, then it has to be fixed >> > as we have users/customers around defini

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 04:18:16PM +0100, Kay Sievers wrote: > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:04, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: > > > > Hmmm ... AFAIK we do.  If things do not work, then it has to be fixed > > as we have users/customers around definitely use this feature. > > I doubt anybody will be able to

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 16:04, Dr. Werner Fink wrote: > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 05:09:03PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: >> On Fri, 25.02.11 13:35, Adam Spragg (a...@spra.gg) wrote: >> >> > >> > On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:00:51 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: >> > > Commit >> > > http://cgit.freedesktop.o

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 05:09:03PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Fri, 25.02.11 13:35, Adam Spragg (a...@spra.gg) wrote: > > > > > On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:00:51 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: > > > Commit > > > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/commit/?id=80758717a6359cbe6048f43a17c > > > 2b53

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, 03.03.11 17:02, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 09:51:52PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > Why? systemd just warns you. systemd itself works fine with sperate > > /usr. It's just a statement on the general ecosystem, a statement of > > fact on th

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 09:51:52PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > Why? systemd just warns you. systemd itself works fine with sperate > /usr. It's just a statement on the general ecosystem, a statement of > fact on the status quo. > > systemd is just the messenger. Don't shoot the messenger.

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, 03.03.11 17:39, Pablo Hess (natunobi...@gentoobr.org) wrote: > > >> Would it work better if /usr was an automounted target? > > > > That would probably blow up in your face, since a lot of programs used > > during early boot end up accessing /usr and would stay stuck > > Aren't /usr/bin

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 05:39:03PM -0300, Pablo Hess wrote: > Not supporting a separate /usr would be a major setback for systemd, IMO. Separate /usr has nothing to do with systemd. It just the way current distribution work. Systemd is just a messenger, don't shot it because of friendly remin

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

>> Would it work better if /usr was an automounted target? > > That would probably blow up in your face, since a lot of programs used > during early boot end up accessing /usr and would stay stuck Aren't /usr/bin and /usr/sbin and /usr/lib supposed to house **only** binaries and respective librari

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, 03.03.11 19:21, Tomasz Torcz (to...@pipebreaker.pl) wrote: > > But it's a promise you are making there that you cannot keep. If you > > want to support /usr on a separate partition then you'd need to do all > > the work and move the PCI and USB databases to /, move libatasmart, > > fix udi

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, 03.03.11 19:29, Tollef Fog Heen (tfh...@err.no) wrote: > | The least you should do is add a warning about this to your release > | notes. > > I'll forward that to the people responsible for the release notes. > > | The fact that most these things fail relatively gracefully should not >

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, 03.03.11 19:42, Tollef Fog Heen (tfh...@err.no) wrote: > > ]] Tomasz Torcz > > | I don't get it. What during the boot (before /usr is mounted) require > pci.db, > | usb ids, why udisks would be started? > > udev rules that reference the name rather than the USB/PCI vendor or > produ

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

]] Tomasz Torcz | I don't get it. What during the boot (before /usr is mounted) require pci.db, | usb ids, why udisks would be started? udev rules that reference the name rather than the USB/PCI vendor or product ID is an example. They're uncommon, but they might exist. -- Tollef Fog Heen

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, Mar 03, 2011 at 06:45:21PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Thu, 03.03.11 17:58, Tollef Fog Heen (tfh...@err.no) wrote: > > > > > ]] Lennart Poettering > > > > | > To boot a system, enough must be present on the root partition to > > | > mount other filesystems. This includes utili

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

]] Lennart Poettering Hi, | But it's a promise you are making there that you cannot keep. If you | want to support /usr on a separate partition then you'd need to do all | the work and move the PCI and USB databases to /, move libatasmart, | fix udisks, fix D-Bus and so on. I leave that to thos

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, 03.03.11 17:58, Tollef Fog Heen (tfh...@err.no) wrote: > > ]] Lennart Poettering > > | > To boot a system, enough must be present on the root partition to > | > mount other filesystems. This includes utilities, configuration, > | > boot loader information, and other essential start-up d

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 17:58, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Lennart Poettering > > | > To boot a system, enough must be present on the root partition to > | > mount other filesystems. This includes utilities, configuration, > | > boot loader information, and other essential start-up data. /usr, > |

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

]] Lennart Poettering | > To boot a system, enough must be present on the root partition to | > mount other filesystems. This includes utilities, configuration, | > boot loader information, and other essential start-up data. /usr, | > /opt, and /var are designed such that they may be located on o

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, 25.02.11 13:35, Adam Spragg (a...@spra.gg) wrote: > > On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:00:51 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: > > Commit > > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/commit/?id=80758717a6359cbe6048f43a17c > > 2b53a3ca8c2fa declared separate /usr unsupported. What is really the reason > > for it

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, 25.02.11 14:54, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 08:37:47PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > Is this flagged for the Fedora 15 release notes? > > Why would it? It's just a statement of fact, as a warning. Thinks like > > Because to my knowledge

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 08:37:47PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > Is this flagged for the Fedora 15 release notes? > Why would it? It's just a statement of fact, as a warning. Thinks like Because to my knowledge it's never been said before, and if the project wants to draw a line in the san

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 08:41:11PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > really no good reason to split it off anyway. Folks who want to do ro > /usr are aiming too low, they should go for ro /. As I noted on the fedora-devel list, that's actually a functional reason for wanting a separate /usr: It'

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, 25.02.11 13:09, Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) wrote: > > Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:23:27PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new > > > policy we came up with here. It

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, 25.02.11 11:22, Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:23:27PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new > > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to the user that setups > > like t

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

2011/2/25 Kay Sievers : > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 20:12, Bill Nottingham wrote: >> Kay Sievers (kay.siev...@vrfy.org) said: >>> >> > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new >>> >> > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to the user that >>> >> > setups >>> >

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 20:12, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Kay Sievers (kay.siev...@vrfy.org) said: >> >> > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new >> >> > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to the user that setups >> >> > like this will break. End of story.

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

Kay Sievers (kay.siev...@vrfy.org) said: > >> > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new > >> > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to the user that setups > >> > like this will break. End of story. > >> > >> Is this flagged for the Fedora 15 release notes?

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 19:09, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: >> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:23:27PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: >> > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new >> > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:23:27PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new > > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to the user that setups > > like this will break. End of story

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:35:14 Adam Spragg wrote: > On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:00:51 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: > > Commit > > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/commit/?id=80758717a6359cbe6048f43a17 > > c 2b53a3ca8c2fa declared separate /usr unsupported. What is really the > > reason for it? > > This

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 01:35:14PM +, Adam Spragg wrote: > > Are there any bug reports that lead to this decision? > No idea, but given that there are probably a fair few systems out there which > currently have a separate /usr, I predict quite a few bug reports because of > this change... h

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Friday 25 Feb 2011 13:00:51 Andrey Borzenkov wrote: > Commit > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/commit/?id=80758717a6359cbe6048f43a17c > 2b53a3ca8c2fa declared separate /usr unsupported. What is really the reason > for it? This does seem odd. Might I also point out... >From

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:23:27PM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote: > Well, it hasn't been working correctly in ages. It's really not new > policy we came up with here. It's just a warning to the user that setups > like this will break. End of story. Is this flagged for the Fedora 15 release notes

Re: [systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

On Fri, 25.02.11 16:00, Andrey Borzenkov (arvidj...@gmail.com) wrote: > Commit > http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/commit/?id=80758717a6359cbe6048f43a17c2b53a3ca8c2fa > declared separate /usr unsupported. What is really the reason for it? It's just acknowledgment of the status quo. And most up

[systemd-devel] /usr on separate file system

Commit http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/commit/?id=80758717a6359cbe6048f43a17c2b53a3ca8c2fa declared separate /usr unsupported. What is really the reason for it? Are there any bug reports that lead to this decision? What are existing systems supposed to do on update? Complete reformatting and