Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Simon Poole]

You raise an important point.

I've commented before, years back in the mean time, on the push to move
information out of OSM in to a third party product over which have no
control and which, if we are not careful, could impact the value of what
we in OSM are doing and distributing (just see MBs use of wikidata in
lieu of OSM place names). It would further be very naive to not see the
competitive angle of what is happening here.

On the other hand lots of the wikidata related additions would seem to
be fairly neutral (WD references additionally to WP links and so on). 

Simon


Am 20.09.2017 um 13:50 schrieb JB:
> Le 20/09/2017 à 13:05, Oleksiy Muzalyev a écrit :
>> It would give a boost to the Wikidata project.
> Am I really reading from an OSM mailing list here?
> I can imagine the time when you will not be able to parse an osm
> extract offline, without reading data from external databases.
> JB.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[JB]

Le 20/09/2017 à 13:05, Oleksiy Muzalyev a écrit :

It would give a boost to the Wikidata project.

Am I really reading from an OSM mailing list here?
I can imagine the time when you will not be able to parse an osm extract 
offline, without reading data from external databases.

JB.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

At first it seemed to me a bit radical, but the more I think about it 
the more I like the idea. It would give a boost to the Wikidata project. 
It would make people to pay more attention to the Wikidata items.


Wikidata items require a lot of work too, - translations of a title, of 
a description, adding a category, an image, a location, etc.
In the end it would benefit the Wikipedias too, as having comprehensive 
Wikidata items, the pages in different languages could be created 
automatically or semi-automatically.


The situation is similar to the USB connector issue, - shall we change 
radically to the new USB-C horizontally symmetrical reversible 
connector, or continue to waste billions of hours of work time 
connecting the old USB with three orientation attempts?


brgds
Oleksiy

On 9/20/2017 1:56 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

[...]
If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
afterwards because it is redundant?
[...]
Bye
Frederik




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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Lester Caine]

On 20/09/17 08:22, Sarah Hoffmann wrote:
>> If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
>> tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
>> afterwards because it is redundant?

> As a reminder: the OSM search engine relies havily on wikipedia tags
> to distinguish the important results from the unimportant ones.
> 
> If you are interested in keeping a half-way functional search on the
> main site, it might be a good idea to find somebody to implement
> support for Wikidata IDs in Nominatim before you enagage in a mass deletion
> of Wikipedia tags.

While wikidata does seem to have come a long way and sort out a lot of
the 'tagging' problems that it had early on, there would still seem to
be a long way to go to use it as a general cross reference replacing
existing data IN the OSM database? Perhaps when the wikipedia pages
cross reference the wikidata entry? But currently one probably needs
both references even if Nominatim was able to handle either.

I followed the wikidata example of Douglas Adams and while it's a little
thing, the same problem we have with OSM cropped up. Douglas went to St
John's College ... I know he went to Cambridge, but OSM search gives
Oxford first! Where ambiguous data exists it would be nice that a better
title was used ... while links take you to the right place, it's an
unnecessary step if one is just scanning the raw data? It took a couple
of minutes to find the right location to see what data was in OSM for
the collage and some material that has not yet made it into wikidata
came up.

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Sarah Hoffmann]

Hi Frederik,

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 01:56:31AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 09/19/2017 10:03 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> > I would like to auto-add all the
> > corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects,
> > using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".
> 
> If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
> tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
> afterwards because it is redundant?

As a reminder: the OSM search engine relies havily on wikipedia tags
to distinguish the important results from the unimportant ones.

If you are interested in keeping a half-way functional search on the
main site, it might be a good idea to find somebody to implement
support for Wikidata IDs in Nominatim before you enagage in a mass deletion
of Wikipedia tags.

Sarah

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 09/19/2017 10:03 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> I would like to auto-add all the
> corresponding wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects,
> using  JOSM's "Fetch Wikidata IDs".

If the Wikidata ID can be fetched automatically based on the Wikipedia
tag, can we delete the Wikipedia tags from everything that has Wikidata
afterwards because it is redundant?

> This way, we will be able to quickly find all the objects that are
> problematic with the Wikidata+OSM service.

Adding problematic data to OSM in order to have it fixed is never a good
idea. It is better to find the problems *first* and add only data that
clears the QA hurdle to OSM. Is this not an option in your case? You
have (personally) added a lot of problematic data in the past that had
to be fixed by others, or maybe hasn't.

> For example, thanks to the
> community, we already fixed over 600 incorrect links to wiki
> disambiguations pages, 

But this would have been possible without importing the data first?

> We will be
> able to fix when things are tagged as people (e.g. wikidata -> person,
> instead of subject:wikidata -> person),

I don't understand; you say that you want to add the wikidata tag to OSM
and only afterwards can you find problems like this? Why can you not
avoid adding a wikidata tag that points to a person in the first place
since it is obviously incorrect?

> find location errors (e.g.
> wikidata and OSM point to very different locations, implying that its an
> incorrect link).

Again, OpenStreetMap is not a workbench for importing and then fixing
non-OSM data (even if it may look convenient). Please build a QA process
based on the un-imported data and import it once you have fixed the
problems.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Yuri Astrakhan]

>
>
> > This way, we will be able to quickly find all the objects that are
> > problematic with the Wikidata+OSM service. For example, thanks to the
> > community, we already fixed over 600 incorrect links to wiki
> disambiguations
> > pages, and this will find many more of them.  We will be able to fix when
> > things are tagged as people (e.g. wikidata -> person, instead of
> > subject:wikidata -> person), find location errors (e.g. wikidata and OSM
> > point to very different locations, implying that its an incorrect link).
>
> The commonest error I have found is wikidata=Qnnn instead of
> brand:wikidata=Qnnn for franchises like McDonalds and petrol stations.
>
> Andy, I agree - there are many ones like that, all around the globe.  I
know that in Israel, @SwiftFast uses a template to keep them in sync for
gas stations and ATMs, but we need a more generic solution.

A simple query could find all wikidatas pointing to enterprises, producing
cases like this (these are just the first ones i found)  -
http://tinyurl.com/yby8564c
* nodes 192051528, 243017574 -- villages marked as ski resort, place=hamlet
or village
* node 285833428 - a ski resort with place=locality
* node 436622732 - a mountain AND a ski resort in WD, with natural=peak in
OSM
* relation 128277 - a commune and a ski resort, marked as admin boundary

An alternative would be to maintain a whitelist of all known brands, either
on a wiki, or as an additional wikidata "instance-of   Q431289".
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding wikidata tags to the remaining objects with only wikipedia tag

[Andy Mabbett]

On 19 September 2017 at 21:03, Yuri Astrakhan  wrote:

> There is now a relatively small number of OSM nodes and relations remaining,
> that have wikipedia, but do not have wikidata tags.

Thank you for your continued excellent work on this.

> iD editor already
> automatically adds wikidata to all new edits, so finishing up the rest
> automatically seems like a good thing to do, as that will allow many new
> quality control queries. I would like to auto-add all the corresponding
> wikidata based on wikipedia, for all remaining objects, using  JOSM's "Fetch
> Wikidata IDs".

Excellent idea; please do.

> This way, we will be able to quickly find all the objects that are
> problematic with the Wikidata+OSM service. For example, thanks to the
> community, we already fixed over 600 incorrect links to wiki disambiguations
> pages, and this will find many more of them.  We will be able to fix when
> things are tagged as people (e.g. wikidata -> person, instead of
> subject:wikidata -> person), find location errors (e.g. wikidata and OSM
> point to very different locations, implying that its an incorrect link).

The commonest error I have found is wikidata=Qnnn instead of
brand:wikidata=Qnnn for franchises like McDonalds and petrol stations.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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