Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On 28/2/23 02:09, Dave F via talk wrote: On 25/02/2023 21:44, Andy Mabbett wrote: shop = watch → shop = watches This could plausibly mean watch as in "monitor" - in other words "please watch for developments". No it can't. Well, it should not in OSM terms. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On 27/2/23 20:30, Philip Barnes wrote: On 26 February 2023 09:09:53 GMT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: shop=map -> shop=maps or maybe it would be better to change in opposite direction? it is not too late as it is a rarely used tag There are few shops selling maps these days .. unfortunately. Specialist shops selling only maps are rare, although they were never common. Maybe one or two in a large city. Shops selling maps are still common however. They are still sold in bookshops, garages and small shops still stock the local Ordinance Survey map as they have always done. Phil (trigpoint) 'Hiking' shops usually sell maps too but I did mean the specialist map shops such as Stanfords. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On 25/02/2023 21:44, Andy Mabbett wrote: shop = watch → shop = watches This could plausibly mean watch as in "monitor" - in other words "please watch for developments". No it can't. DaveF___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Feb 27, 2023, 08:19 by 61sundow...@gmail.com: > > > > On 26/2/23 20:59, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > >> >> >> >> Feb 26, 2023, 10:20 by >> 61sundow...@gmail.com>> : >> >>> >>> On 26/2/23 06:08, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: >>> shop = opał → shop = fuel >>> >>> >>> Opal is also a gemstone, Australia being a leading source. It is >>> also a fuel in Australia ... but that would not be sold in shops >>> but petrol stations. >>> >> note that it is not opal, it is opał with >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81>> at the end >> > > Not in Australia. Opal with an L. > > And these will not be affected by my proposed edit (I have not listed this replacement, right?) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On 26 February 2023 09:09:53 GMT, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> shop=map -> shop=maps >> or maybe it would be better to change in opposite direction? >> it is not too late as it is a rarely used tag >There are few shops selling maps these days .. unfortunately. > Specialist shops selling only maps are rare, although they were never common. Maybe one or two in a large city. Shops selling maps are still common however. They are still sold in bookshops, garages and small shops still stock the local Ordinance Survey map as they have always done. Phil (trigpoint) > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On 26/2/23 20:59, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: Feb 26, 2023, 10:20 by 61sundow...@gmail.com: On 26/2/23 06:08, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: shop = opał → shop = fuel Opal is also a gemstone, Australia being a leading source. It is also a fuel in Australia ... but that would not be sold in shops but petrol stations. note that it is not opal, it is opał with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81 at the end Not in Australia. Opal with an L. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7145645423 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7145645424 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7145645443 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3298293637 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2016079949 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7145645475 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7145646105 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3298279023 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4822177921 and on and on.. shop=map -> shop=maps or maybe it would be better to change in opposite direction? it is not too late as it is a rarely used tag There are few shops selling maps these days .. unfortunately. still, managed to find and map two :) https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5421309165 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
sent from a phone > On 26 Feb 2023, at 10:19, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Opal is also a gemstone, Australia being a leading source. It is also a fuel > in Australia ... but that would not be sold in shops but petrol stations. in Germany OPAL is the name of a fibre optic internet access standard (infamous because it was rolled out in big areas but then not attached to the internet for decades) https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optische_Anschlussleitung ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Feb 26, 2023, 10:20 by 61sundow...@gmail.com: > > On 26/2/23 06:08, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > >> shop = opał → shop = fuel >> > > > Opal is also a gemstone, Australia being a leading source. It is also a fuel > in Australia ... but that would not be sold in shops but petrol stations. > note that it is not opal, it is opał with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81 at the end >> shop=map -> shop=maps >> or maybe it would be better to change in opposite direction? >> it is not too late as it is a rarely used tag >> > There are few shops selling maps these days .. unfortunately. > still, managed to find and map two :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On 26/2/23 06:08, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: I proposed some time ago to replace some surface values. The initial script run was recently done, after waiting for a potential feedback. Edit is documented at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/fixing_malformed_surface_tags I propose to expand this by replacing also surface and shop tags listed below. Shop edit would get own wiki documentation page, surface replacements would be added to existing page and it would link to both discussions. Please comment if any of proposed replacements are dubious in any way and do not qualify for a replacement with an automated edit. List previously was really short, this one is longer - let me know if either format is preferred. Either way, I will not make any bot edits before 11 III in my time zone. (I wait for about two weeks after proposing bot edits, as usual). -- proposed migration of shop=* values: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1rLI for current listing of objects - 1117 right now shop = opał → shop = fuel Opal is also a gemstone, Australia being a leading source. It is also a fuel in Australia ... but that would not be sold in shops but petrol stations. If you reached here: I have some question about shop values that I am NOT proposing to edit right now. shop=eggs -> shop=food food=eggs maybe such migration would be a good idea? having top value for every single shop type specializing in a given food seems hopeless - we would need shop=pumpkin, shop=apples, shop=basil, shop=pierogi... That is nighmarish for data consumers. If not shop=food - what would be a good shop value for myriad shops selling some specific food, that are clearly neither restaurant nor fast foods? Not all foods are as commonly sold in dedicated shop to get shop=rice or shop=cheese ??? produce=eggs ??? And there could be ??? sells=eggs??? I prefer produce as it can be used on more than shops. shop=snacks -> shop=snack or maybe it would be better to change in opposite direction? it is not too late as it is a rarely used tag shop=map -> shop=maps or maybe it would be better to change in opposite direction? it is not too late as it is a rarely used tag There are few shops selling maps these days .. unfortunately. shop=religious -> shop=religion or is it not a safe replacement shop=fireworks -> shop=pyrotechnics pyrotechnics=fireworks maybe it would be clearly superior? I'd leave is as fireworks - more easily translated? And more restrictive than pyrotechnics. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Feb 25, 2023, 22:50 by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: > On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 at 19:08, Mateusz Konieczny via talk > wrote: > >> shop = Bag_shop → shop = bag >> > > Is this a shop that sells bags, or "things by the bagfull"? > >> shop = watch → shop = watches >> > > This could plausibly mean watch as in "monitor" - in other words > "please watch for developments". > Not really convinced that either applies, but I will not replace them automatically and iff I will decide to use my hobby time in this way I will ask people who added them what they intended (or change manually based on the context). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Feb 25, 2023, 23:11 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > Am Sa., 25. Feb. 2023 um 22:07 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk <> > talk@openstreetmap.org> >: > >> >> >> So shop = laundromat → shop = laundry + self_service=yes would be needed? >> > > > > it could be seen as equivalent, personally I would see a case for different > main tags because these are quite different features, better not intervene in > an automatic way (although admittedly there is 1000 times less usage for > laundromat one could also say that 40 laundromats are not worth discussing). > Maybe set up a proposal for laundromat? For 25% of all laundries there is > "self_service" information (and 85% of these are self service=yes which could > suggest that the default is self_service=no). I'd rather go for > amenity=laundromat (it has 7 uses now) > OK, I will not change this > For 25% of all laundries there is "self_service" information > (and 85% of these are self service=yes which could suggest that the default > is > self_service=no) Note that over 2900 self_service tags were added by StreetComplete (checking distribution of this edits may give hint how many shop=laundry are laundromats) See AddSelfServiceLaundry in https://piebro.github.io/openstreetmap-statistics/#6773___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Feb 25, 2023, 22:00 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk >> wrote: >> >> There is no point in manual drudgery here, with values clearly >> replaceable by better matches. >> >> This values here do NOT require manual overview. If this cases will >> turn out to be an useful signal of invalid editing than I will remain >> reviewing nearby areas where bot edited. >> > > > forgot to say I applaud to this initiative, thank you for tackling this and > documenting the process. I agree that there are many cases that can be fixed > automatically, and your list shows good examples, but of course we must be > very careful to not iron everything flat when there might be subtle > differences. This is why it is important to have many eyes on such bot edits > and document the details. > BTW, if someone would prepare similar list for some key (replacements of value A by value B within the same key, without any additional checks/replacements/conditions, with explanations why such replacements are obviously useful), AND they confirmed that this tags are not very good at indicating places where intensive cleanup/reverts are needed AND list would be in general reasonably reviewed AND publish bot proposal on this mailing list, like this one then I can run such edit. Preparing it is time-consuming, running bot itself is easy. (lets say that offer is active for the next 30 days so noone will try this in say 6 years from now, may be revoked earlier if people will try to post really badly prepared lists) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Am Sa., 25. Feb. 2023 um 22:07 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk < talk@openstreetmap.org>: > > So shop = laundromat → shop = laundry + self_service=yes would be needed? > it could be seen as equivalent, personally I would see a case for different main tags because these are quite different features, better not intervene in an automatic way (although admittedly there is 1000 times less usage for laundromat one could also say that 40 laundromats are not worth discussing). Maybe set up a proposal for laundromat? For 25% of all laundries there is "self_service" information (and 85% of these are self service=yes which could suggest that the default is self_service=no). I'd rather go for amenity=laundromat (it has 7 uses now) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
On Sat, 25 Feb 2023 at 19:08, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > Please comment if any of proposed replacements are dubious in any way and > proposed migration of shop=* values: These, and the durface= values, are motsly good changes; thank you. But consider: > shop = laundromat → shop = laundry Not the same, as others have noted. > shop = Bag_shop → shop = bag Is this a shop that sells bags, or "things by the bagfull"? > shop = watch → shop = watches This could plausibly mean watch as in "monitor" - in other words "please watch for developments". -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
sent from a phone > On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk > wrote: > > There is no point in manual drudgery here, with values clearly > replaceable by better matches. > > This values here do NOT require manual overview. If this cases will > turn out to be an useful signal of invalid editing than I will remain > reviewing nearby areas where bot edited. forgot to say I applaud to this initiative, thank you for tackling this and documenting the process. I agree that there are many cases that can be fixed automatically, and your list shows good examples, but of course we must be very careful to not iron everything flat when there might be subtle differences. This is why it is important to have many eyes on such bot edits and document the details. Cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Feb 25, 2023, 21:14 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk >> wrote: >> >> shop = laundromat → shop = laundry >> > > > I think the laundromat is about a diy place while shop=laundry can also be a > service where you drop off your laundry and they’ll take care of everything. > Wiki suggests adding self_service=yes for the former. > So shop = laundromat → shop = laundry + self_service=yes would be needed? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
Note: I want to mention for context that this was preceded with > If you reached here: I have some question about shop values that > I am NOT proposing to edit right now. Feb 25, 2023, 21:27 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > > >> On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk >> wrote: >> shop=eggs -> shop=food food=eggs >> >> maybe such migration would be a good idea? >> having top value for every single shop type specializing in a given food >> seems hopeless - we would need shop=pumpkin, shop=apples, shop=basil, >> shop=pierogi... >> That is nighmarish for data consumers. >> > > > maybe for these pumpkin or apple or basil shops a more generic category > (there is > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dfarm> ) can make > sense, with a subtag for the kind of produce they sell, but food is very > important for all of us and we do indeed mostly tag dedicated classes for > these, like bakery, butcher, greengrocer, wine, deli, supermarket, > convenience, so if there are dedicated pierogi shops I would tag them as > this. You would not want to find them if you search for “food”, you search > for pierogi if you wanted to find them. There is shop=pasta where I think > pierogi could fit, “food” is too generic. > Shops selling pierogi are definitely not shop=pasta and I was thinking about shop=food food=pierogi or something similar for places like https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3033173319 maybe shop=food main_food=pierogi to avoid food key ending with multiple uses? or shop=prepared_meals (almost ready for eating but requiring heating/boiling) there is shop=frozen_food not fitting shops selling food that is prepared and not frozen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
sent from a phone > On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk > wrote: > > shop=eggs -> shop=food food=eggs > maybe such migration would be a good idea? > having top value for every single shop type specializing in a given food > seems hopeless - we would need shop=pumpkin, shop=apples, shop=basil, > shop=pierogi... > That is nighmarish for data consumers. maybe for these pumpkin or apple or basil shops a more generic category (there is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dfarm ) can make sense, with a subtag for the kind of produce they sell, but food is very important for all of us and we do indeed mostly tag dedicated classes for these, like bakery, butcher, greengrocer, wine, deli, supermarket, convenience, so if there are dedicated pierogi shops I would tag them as this. You would not want to find them if you search for “food”, you search for pierogi if you wanted to find them. There is shop=pasta where I think pierogi could fit, “food” is too generic.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
sent from a phone > On 25 Feb 2023, at 20:13, Mateusz Konieczny via talk > wrote: > > shop = laundromat → shop = laundry I think the laundromat is about a diy place while shop=laundry can also be a service where you drop off your laundry and they’ll take care of everything. Wiki suggests adding self_service=yes for the former. Cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proposed automatic replacements of multiple surface=* and shop=* values (review welcomed!)
I proposed some time ago to replace some surface values. The initial script run was recently done, after waiting for a potential feedback. Edit is documented at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/fixing_malformed_surface_tags I propose to expand this by replacing also surface and shop tags listed below. Shop edit would get own wiki documentation page, surface replacements would be added to existing page and it would link to both discussions. Please comment if any of proposed replacements are dubious in any way and do not qualify for a replacement with an automated edit. List previously was really short, this one is longer - let me know if either format is preferred. Either way, I will not make any bot edits before 11 III in my time zone. (I wait for about two weeks after proposing bot edits, as usual). overpass query listing where surface would be edited: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1rKh - 2084 objects right now surface replacements: surface = artificial_grass → surface = artificial_turf See https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/surface-artificial-grass-vs-surface-artificial-turf/6295 surface = barkchips → surface = woodchips surface = bark_wood → surface = woodchips opened notes for some of them and some turned out to not be even made of actual bark when checked by local mappers... something went wrong with autocomplete: surface = as → surface = asphalt surface = asp → surface = asphalt surface = grav → surface = gravel surface = pebb → surface = pebblestone seems like name in a different language, but with a clear meaning surface = asfalto → surface = asphalt in several languages "beton" is word for concrete, so far I was opening notes for a long time and asking in changesets and in every single case it was a clearly correct replacement surface = beton → surface = concrete translating from Polish surface = ziemna → surface = earth we do not have unpaved_dirt either surface = unpaved_gravel → surface = gravel clear typos surface = ashpalt → surface = asphalt surface = Asphalt → surface = asphalt surface = ashalt → surface = asphalt surface = aspahlt → surface = asphalt surface = ashphalt → surface = asphalt surface = paving_stone → surface = paving_stones surface = Paving Stone → surface = paving_stones surface = paving_stoness → surface = paving_stones surface = wood_chips → surface = woodchips surface = woodchip → surface = woodchips surface = wood chips → surface = woodchips surface = wood_chippings → surface = woodchips surface = peeblestone → surface = pebblestone surface = pebbles → surface = pebblestone surface = pebblestones → surface = pebblestone surface = pebbelstone → surface = pebblestone surface = pepplestone → surface = pebblestone surface = pebble → surface = pebblestone surface = pavedq → surface = paved surface = pavedc → surface = paved surface = pavedw → surface = paved surface = unapved → surface = unpaved surface = groundц → surface = ground surface = groundmm → surface = ground surface = grround → surface = ground surface = groundc → surface = ground surface = gorund → surface = ground surface = grounD → surface = ground surface = concreate → surface = concrete surface = concrete\ → surface = concrete surface = gravelw → surface = gravel surface = Gravel → surface = gravel surface = fine gravel → surface = fine_gravel surface = fine_gravelC → surface = fine_gravel surface = Boardwalk → surface = boardwalk surface = Metal → surface = metal surface = gras → surface = grass surface = grasss → surface = grass surface = concrete:plate → surface = concrete:plates surface = Cobblestone:flattened → surface = cobblestone:flattened surface = cobbelstone:flattened → surface = cobblestone:flattened surface = cobblestone:flatten → surface = cobblestone:flattened surface = cobblestone:flattended → surface = cobblestone:flattened surface = cobblestone:flattend → surface = cobblestone:flattened surface = cobblestone:flatened → surface = cobblestone:flattened -- proposed migration of shop=* values: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1rLI for current listing of objects - 1117 right now various ways of saying that we lack info about shop type shop = user defined → shop = yes shop = user_defined → shop = yes shop = lack_of_info → shop = yes shop = other → shop = yes shop = unknown → shop = yes shop = * → shop = yes shop = Shop → shop = yes shop = shop → shop = yes shop = stuff → shop = yes shop = store → shop = yes shop=* and shop = user defined are used literally - and not catchalls. see https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org//search?q=shop%3Duser+defined synonyms or synonyms in this context sometimes product tagged as a shop type shop = pawnshop → shop = pawnbroker shop = bread → shop = bakery shop = laundromat → shop = laundry shop = flowers → shop = florist shop = meat → shop = butcher shop = glasses → shop = optician shop = hgv → shop = truck shop = liquor → shop = alcohol shop = Bag_shop → shop =
