Stewart, Yes, the plan is this: we met with our folks in dissemination working on the open data initiative. First, we need to host these files ourselves at StatCan. So they have to go through an approval process to go our open data release servers. Then, they will be linked to open.canada.ca.
The overall plan is to bring this data under the federal open data license of open.canada.ca. The license info: open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada This was established after consultations with many groups. The discussion page is interesting as well. Let me know what you think! -----Original Message----- From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org] Sent: August-06-16 7:00 PM To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 102, Issue 22 Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to talk-ca@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (Stewart C. Russell) 2. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (john whelan) 3. Re: Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada (john whelan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:38:48 -0400 From: "Stewart C. Russell" <scr...@gmail.com> To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada Message-ID: <d0ca5c04-cc47-558e-d691-532842b4e...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi John - some great points here. > My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of > Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap > without the current license restriction. This would be wonderful. It would be ideal if the data could be placed on data.gc.ca and use the OGL-CA v2 licence. OSM can't use any data under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use <http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use>. I also have my doubts about the acceptability of the Statistics Canada Open Licence Agreement <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/reference/licence>. OGL-CA v2, though, we know to be acceptable. Also, if there were to be an import, we *must* follow the Import/Guidelines <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> or risk having any new imports deleted. The recent LA building import provides a decent template, but there are no imports without the Data Working Group having knowledge of it. [** Bjenk: if all this seems gibberish, please ping me off-list, and I'd be happy to have a chat. Despite my previous flippant comments, I think this is a great project.] To some more of John's points: > He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address > including postcode. Which is interesting as currently each node of > store within a building might have part of the address. For sure. I looked at the City of Ottawa data, and getting it to mesh with existing address points and ranges in OSM is going to be challenging: * fixing street naming to meet OSM standards (so Ottawa's 991 CARLING AVE would have to become addr:housenumber=991 and addr:street=Carling Avenue). Not impossible, but would need some manual oversight * Inconsistent application of French to some street names, English to others, and no obvious metadata to distinguish language * some buildings in mixed-use neighbourhoods will have multiple address points, all containing the same address (eg St Stephen's on Parkdale Ave has three 579 Parkdale Ave nodes) * some buildings just plain don't have address points nearby (like the Agri-Food Canada Building on Carling Ave) * rationalizing address points with existing address ranges. And then there's the postal code problem. If Stat Canada can bring us a licence-compatible data set of full codes that Canada Post *won't* try to sue us over, that would be glorious. I'm not sure we could get enough traction with the general Canadian public to do the "Free the Postcode" initiative like in the UK to make this useful as a crowdsourcing effort. > … One problem I see arising is a new mapper mapping to the > Stats Canada guide lines using iD changes one or more existing tags. I > do a fair amount of validation in HOT and some newer mappers either > completely ignore or misunderstand the instructions. Yes, this can be a problem with newer mappers. There would need to be a careful data quality metric, but also an understanding that unpaid, crowdsourced data may always have errors. Big project. Genuine opportunities for learning and value on all sides. cheers, Stewart ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 14:12:55 -0400 From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> To: "Stewart C. Russell" <scr...@gmail.com> Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>, Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada Message-ID: <CAJ-Ex1H-yAjKFRTQdQ0prRUkcwSRHuBai4-ZsJNFbi5cw1_=0...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I understand the current intent is data.gc.ca There is actually a lot of postcode data in Ottawa adhresses as it stands especially for commercial buildings. Don't hold your breath for Canada Post and postcodes. Some attributes they would like at the moment I can't see how a mapper would map them from physically looking at the building. If nothing else it should clean up the map. For that reason it would be nice to be able to pull chunks into JOSM and go over it looking for obvious errors and spelling mistakes in tags. Maperitive has the ability to extract the tags and export them in spreadsheet format which is good for this sort of thing but you need a source to feed it. Cheerio John On 6 August 2016 at 12:38, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi John - some great points here. > > > My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of > > Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap > > without the current license restriction. > > This would be wonderful. It would be ideal if the data could be placed > on data.gc.ca and use the OGL-CA v2 licence. OSM can't use any data > under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use > <http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use>. I > also have my doubts about the acceptability of the Statistics Canada > Open Licence Agreement <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/reference/licence>. > OGL-CA v2, though, we know to be acceptable. > > Also, if there were to be an import, we *must* follow the > Import/Guidelines > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> or risk having > any new imports deleted. The recent LA building import provides a decent > template, but there are no imports without the Data Working Group having > knowledge of it. > > [** Bjenk: if all this seems gibberish, please ping me off-list, and I'd > be happy to have a chat. Despite my previous flippant comments, I think > this is a great project.] > > To some more of John's points: > > > He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address > > including postcode. Which is interesting as currently each node of > > store within a building might have part of the address. > > For sure. I looked at the City of Ottawa data, and getting it to mesh > with existing address points and ranges in OSM is going to be challenging: > > * fixing street naming to meet OSM standards (so Ottawa's 991 CARLING > AVE would have to become addr:housenumber=991 and addr:street=Carling > Avenue). Not impossible, but would need some manual oversight > > * Inconsistent application of French to some street names, English to > others, and no obvious metadata to distinguish language > > * some buildings in mixed-use neighbourhoods will have multiple address > points, all containing the same address (eg St Stephen's on Parkdale Ave > has three 579 Parkdale Ave nodes) > > * some buildings just plain don't have address points nearby (like the > Agri-Food Canada Building on Carling Ave) > > * rationalizing address points with existing address ranges. > > And then there's the postal code problem. If Stat Canada can bring us a > licence-compatible data set of full codes that Canada Post *won't* try > to sue us over, that would be glorious. I'm not sure we could get enough > traction with the general Canadian public to do the "Free the Postcode" > initiative like in the UK to make this useful as a crowdsourcing effort. > > > … One problem I see arising is a new mapper mapping to the > > Stats Canada guide lines using iD changes one or more existing tags. I > > do a fair amount of validation in HOT and some newer mappers either > > completely ignore or misunderstand the instructions. > > Yes, this can be a problem with newer mappers. There would need to be a > careful data quality metric, but also an understanding that unpaid, > crowdsourced data may always have errors. > > Big project. Genuine opportunities for learning and value on all sides. > > cheers, > Stewart > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ca/attachments/20160806/1d72a6e4/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:59:27 -0400 From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> To: "Stewart C. Russell" <scr...@gmail.com> Cc: "Ellefsen, Bjenk \(STATCAN\)" <bjenk.ellef...@canada.ca>, Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Crowdsourcing buildings with Statistics Canada Message-ID: <caj-ex1gudgj9d5anfgg8qkmsjapddd9qe0ijvm5qlqtecpt...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On the clean up side I pulled in osmconvert64 ontario.osm -b=-76,45.0,-75.7,45.5 -o=ottawa1.osm so a small chunk of ottawa. JOSM validation gave 50 errors and 3,913 warnings. The ontario map was fairly recent like yesterday I think. The file is here: http://www.jatws.org/johnw/ottawa1.zip if any one would like to load it into JOSM and perhaps clean a few errors up. I don't seem to be able to split off the entire city but I can do some chunks if anyone is interested. Ideally find the error then down load a fresh tiny bit using slippy map, correct and upload. Cheerio John On 6 August 2016 at 14:12, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com> wrote: > I understand the current intent is data.gc.ca > > There is actually a lot of postcode data in Ottawa adhresses as it stands > especially for commercial buildings. Don't hold your breath for Canada > Post and postcodes. > > Some attributes they would like at the moment I can't see how a mapper > would map them from physically looking at the building. > > If nothing else it should clean up the map. For that reason it would be > nice to be able to pull chunks into JOSM and go over it looking for obvious > errors and spelling mistakes in tags. Maperitive has the ability to > extract the tags and export them in spreadsheet format which is good for > this sort of thing but you need a source to feed it. > > > Cheerio John > > On 6 August 2016 at 12:38, Stewart C. Russell <scr...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi John - some great points here. >> >> > My understanding is currently he’s looking getting hold of the City of >> > Ottawa building outline data and making it available to OpenStreetMap >> > without the current license restriction. >> >> This would be wonderful. It would be ideal if the data could be placed >> on data.gc.ca and use the OGL-CA v2 licence. OSM can't use any data >> under the City of Ottawa Open Data - Terms of use >> <http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-terms-use>. I >> also have my doubts about the acceptability of the Statistics Canada >> Open Licence Agreement <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/reference/licence>. >> OGL-CA v2, though, we know to be acceptable. >> >> Also, if there were to be an import, we *must* follow the >> Import/Guidelines >> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines> or risk having >> any new imports deleted. The recent LA building import provides a decent >> template, but there are no imports without the Data Working Group having >> knowledge of it. >> >> [** Bjenk: if all this seems gibberish, please ping me off-list, and I'd >> be happy to have a chat. Despite my previous flippant comments, I think >> this is a great project.] >> >> To some more of John's points: >> >> > He’s also asking for the building outline to be tagged with the address >> > including postcode. Which is interesting as currently each node of >> > store within a building might have part of the address. >> >> For sure. I looked at the City of Ottawa data, and getting it to mesh >> with existing address points and ranges in OSM is going to be challenging: >> >> * fixing street naming to meet OSM standards (so Ottawa's 991 CARLING >> AVE would have to become addr:housenumber=991 and addr:street=Carling >> Avenue). Not impossible, but would need some manual oversight >> >> * Inconsistent application of French to some street names, English to >> others, and no obvious metadata to distinguish language >> >> * some buildings in mixed-use neighbourhoods will have multiple address >> points, all containing the same address (eg St Stephen's on Parkdale Ave >> has three 579 Parkdale Ave nodes) >> >> * some buildings just plain don't have address points nearby (like the >> Agri-Food Canada Building on Carling Ave) >> >> * rationalizing address points with existing address ranges. >> >> And then there's the postal code problem. If Stat Canada can bring us a >> licence-compatible data set of full codes that Canada Post *won't* try >> to sue us over, that would be glorious. I'm not sure we could get enough >> traction with the general Canadian public to do the "Free the Postcode" >> initiative like in the UK to make this useful as a crowdsourcing effort. >> >> > … One problem I see arising is a new mapper mapping to the >> > Stats Canada guide lines using iD changes one or more existing tags. I >> > do a fair amount of validation in HOT and some newer mappers either >> > completely ignore or misunderstand the instructions. >> >> Yes, this can be a problem with newer mappers. There would need to be a >> careful data quality metric, but also an understanding that unpaid, >> crowdsourced data may always have errors. >> >> Big project. Genuine opportunities for learning and value on all sides. >> >> cheers, >> Stewart >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-ca mailing list >> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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