Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

2017-11-03 Thread Lukas Sommer 
Note that it’s not -Latin"/-latin, but it is -Latn/-latn.

There is no monolithic OSM system. How these tags are recognized (or
not), each software project decides for itself.
Lukas Sommer


2017-11-03 9:15 GMT+00:00 Garam Gim :
> Hello.
>
> I agree with it. But I have a question in regard to this. The tag "-Latin"
> as capital letter is different to "-latin" small letter? In other words, do
> OSM system (or format?) recogize them differently?
>
> And I worry a little bit, because already so many people (and I) is using
> "ko_rm" in features until now.
>
> Thanks.
>
> 2017-10-27 0:23 GMT+09:00 Max :
>>
>> Agree, data consumers should read the tag case insensitive, just in case,
>> but for tagging we should follow one recommendation and that should be -Latn
>>
>>
>> On 2017년 10월 26일 23:47, Lukas Sommer wrote:
>>>
>>> Makes sense!
>>>
>>> (I’m not sure about lowercase. I would rather opt for ko-Latn because
>>> also also sr-Latn uses titlecase.)
>>> Lukas Sommer
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-10-26 3:06 GMT+00:00 Maarten van den Hoven :

 Dear OSM editors,


 This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
 tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent
 to
 their respective mailing lists.

 The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
 not
 the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
 ago
 because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
 seen
 here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
 The
 global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here
 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
 "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves
 confusion
 over the use of the tag
 (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

 This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above
 links
 and this one ->
 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
 However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

 Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
 procedure as defined here
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
 changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
 past as well
 (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

 Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone
 has
 objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
 "ko-Latn" tag.

 We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
 here
 https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

 Kind regards.

 ___
 Talk-ko mailing list
 Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko

>>>
>>> ___
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>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

2017-11-03 Thread Garam Gim 
Hello.

I agree with it. But I have a question in regard to this. The tag "-Latin"
as capital letter is different to "-latin" small letter? In other words, do
OSM system (or format?) recogize them differently?

And I worry a little bit, because already so many people (and I) is using
"ko_rm" in features until now.

Thanks.

2017-10-27 0:23 GMT+09:00 Max :

> Agree, data consumers should read the tag case insensitive, just in case,
> but for tagging we should follow one recommendation and that should be -Latn
>
>
> On 2017년 10월 26일 23:47, Lukas Sommer wrote:
>
>> Makes sense!
>>
>> (I’m not sure about lowercase. I would rather opt for ko-Latn because
>> also also sr-Latn uses titlecase.)
>> Lukas Sommer
>>
>>
>> 2017-10-26 3:06 GMT+00:00 Maarten van den Hoven :
>>
>>> Dear OSM editors,
>>>
>>>
>>> This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
>>> tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent
>>> to
>>> their respective mailing lists.
>>>
>>> The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
>>> not
>>> the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
>>> ago
>>> because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
>>> seen
>>> here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
>>> The
>>> global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here
>>> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
>>> "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
>>> over the use of the tag
>>> (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).
>>>
>>> This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
>>> and this one ->
>>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
>>> However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.
>>>
>>> Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
>>> procedure as defined here
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
>>> changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
>>> past as well (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
>>> /wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).
>>>
>>> Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone
>>> has
>>> objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
>>> "ko-Latn" tag.
>>>
>>> We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
>>> here
>>> https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
>>>
>>> Kind regards.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

2017-10-26 Thread Max 
Agree, data consumers should read the tag case insensitive, just in 
case, but for tagging we should follow one recommendation and that 
should be -Latn


On 2017년 10월 26일 23:47, Lukas Sommer wrote:

Makes sense!

(I’m not sure about lowercase. I would rather opt for ko-Latn because
also also sr-Latn uses titlecase.)
Lukas Sommer


2017-10-26 3:06 GMT+00:00 Maarten van den Hoven :

Dear OSM editors,


This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
their respective mailing lists.

The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is not
the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time ago
because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as seen
here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention). The
global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
"ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
over the use of the tag
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
and this one ->
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
procedure as defined here
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
past as well (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
"ko-Latn" tag.

We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group here
https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

Kind regards.

___
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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

2017-10-26 Thread Lukas Sommer 
Makes sense!

(I’m not sure about lowercase. I would rather opt for ko-Latn because
also also sr-Latn uses titlecase.)
Lukas Sommer


2017-10-26 3:06 GMT+00:00 Maarten van den Hoven :
> Dear OSM editors,
>
>
> This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
> tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
> their respective mailing lists.
>
> The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is not
> the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time ago
> because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as seen
> here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention). The
> global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
> "ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
> over the use of the tag
> (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).
>
> This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
> and this one ->
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ko/204
> However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.
>
> Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
> procedure as defined here
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of
> changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to "name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the
> past as well (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).
>
> Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
> objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
> "ko-Latn" tag.
>
> We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group here
> https://telegram.me/osmKorea.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> ___
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>

___
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Re: [Talk-ko] Romanisation: a solution

2017-10-25 Thread Maarten van den Hoven 
Hello Andrew,

I agree with your view on the Telegram group. All important discussion
should be done here.

I would like to add to the romanisation proposal that the OSM guide
recommends the use of lower case tags. BCP47 states that the standard is
case insensitive. Therefore, I suggest the use of "ko-latn" instead of
"ko-Latn".

Kind regards.


On 26 Oct 2017 1:21 p.m., "Andrew Errington"  wrote:

Hello Maarten,

I agree with your reasoning that the tag was probably chosen because the
ko-Latn tag was either unknown at the time, or maybe didn't exist.  I searched
for the "correct" tag a few times myself in the past because I suspected
ko_rm was not a recognised language code, but I didn't find a definitive
answer.

I also agree that standards are good in general, so I support the
suggestion to change the ko_rm tag to ko-Latn.  However, I don't know how
many data consumers use the ko_rm tag who would be affected.  I suspect the
number is small because most people in Korea use online maps from Daum and
Naver (the two most popular online portals in Korea).

Regarding the osmKorea group on telegram.me I think it should not be
promoted for two reasons.  Firstly, it seems that the messages can only be
seen with the Telegram app.  They are not visible on a webpage therefore
no-one can read any discussion or contribute without the app.  Secondly,
the OSM community in Korea is small.  Not many people are subscribed to
this list (Talk-ko) and using Telegram will fragment discussions further.
I suppose there is a third reason, and that is the most popular chat
program in Korea is Kakao Talk.

In summary, I support changing ko_rm to ko-Latn, but I don't support using
Telegram for discussion.

Best wishes,

Andrew


On Oct 26, 2017 4:07 PM, "Maarten van den Hoven" 
wrote:

Dear OSM editors,


This email proposes a solution to the Korean and Japanese romanisation
tagging issue. Since this topic concerns both Korea and Japan it is sent to
their respective mailing lists.

The tag for romanised korean is currently "name:ko_rm". However, this is
not the international standard. "ko_rm" was most likely chosen a long time
ago because people at the time were unformiliar with the global standard as
seen here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Korea_Naming_Convention).
The global standard as defined by the Internet Engineering Task Force here (
https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47) and backed by W3C, Unicode, ECMA is
"ko-Latn" instead of "ko_rm". Adopting a global standard solves confusion
over the use of the tag (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Multilingual_names#Korea).

This talk has been going on for the past years as seen by the above links
and this one -> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.
ko/204
However, I was unable to find arguments in defense of the "ko_rm" tag.

Therefore, I suggest an edit of the OSM database (following the official
procedure as defined here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org
/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct) of changing all "name:ko_rm" tags to
"name:ko-Latn", like Serbia did in the past as well (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Serbia).

Before this change is pushed it is of course important to see if anyone has
objections or other reasons why the "ko_rm" tag was chosen over the
"ko-Latn" tag.

We encourage editors in Korea to join the OSM Korea Telegram chat group
here https://telegram.me/osmKorea.

Kind regards.

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