Re: [talk-ph] Revisiting road classifications
I agree that the official classifications by the DPWH does not correspond very well with those of OSM's. This is also true for some countries as well. But I still see trunk class matches with national primary (with some exceptions) and primary class with national secondary (with a handful of exceptions). And so far, in local usage, a road generically called "National Road/Highway" means a major route, but we still have to rely on how the road is actually used by traffic, so, we can still say we should not rely too much on the official classification. For me, trunk class should be a long-distance highway route that is not an expressway, and as I look on the existing road network, we've got too many of this, especially around CALABARZON. We should be reducing this to the backbone routes which carry traffic between regions and major cities. I think the definitive criteria is this for a trunk road is: *Usually a national primary (1 or 2-digit) route *Continuous for hundreds of kilometers. *Connects key cities and regional centers. I still agree that primary must be restricted to those maintained by the DPWH. I don't agree the main road to a city or town center should be all primary (especially when it's no longer maintained by the DPWH, is not numbered, or the existing highway route has been moved to bypass it), so are other roads that connect all town centers (it's vague, and we've got so many lower-level roads tagged as primary, which is not reflective either of their actual importance). We can better explain primary can include most of the secondary national roads, with exceptions we can discuss later, but we can maintain the definition they are the roads that complement the trunk or backbone network. On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 10:28 AM Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > Hi, > > I am not convinced that we should take DPWH's road classifications with > great weight in refining OSMPH's road classification. Note that "National > Road" does not mean that the road is functionally important but rather it > only means that DPWH is the government agency in charge of maintaining such > roads as opposed to LGUs. > > I also understand that DPWH classifies National Roads as either > expressway, primary, secondary, or tertiary, but looking at the following > map of National Roads in Metro Manila, I do not quite agree with DPWH's > classifications at least with respect to OSM: > http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/dpwh/2018%20DPWH%20ATLAS/Road%20Data%202016/NCR.jpg > > ~Eugene > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 3:13 PM Jherome Miguel > wrote: > >> With the Department of Public Works and Highways introducing route >> numbers and reworking the road classifications since 2014, it seems the >> road classifications also need to be revamped. >> >> The 2014 DPWH classifications are: >> >> *Expressway >> *National road >> ** National primary road (1-2 digit routes) >> ** National secondary road (3-digit routes) >> ** National tertiary road >> *Provincial road >> *City/municipal road >> *Barangay road >> >> while the older classifications are: >> >> *Expressway >> *National roads >> **North-South Backbone >> **East-West Laterals >> **Other Roads of Strategic Importance >> *Provincial roads >> *City/municipal road >> *Barangay road >> >> The introduction of route numbers and more specific national road classes >> also meant reconsidering how we should use classifications. I agree trunk >> would include the major national roads that form critical links between >> cities and provinces, but I disagree with the present usage of primary. >> There are many usages of the primary tag on roads classified as provincial >> and below, which is not reflective of actual traffic patterns. It was >> previously proposed in 2009 that primary should be restricted to the >> national roads (see >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2010-January/001693.html), >> but the plan seems to have stalled. >> >> The proposal I have considered, which largely adapted from the >> conventions in Canada and Australia, is: >> >> *Trunk - major national roads that connect major cities (population >> 100k+), and forms the national transportation backbone. Usually 1 to >> 2-digit routes, or the primary national roads. >> *Primary - all other national roads that connect other cities and >> municipalities not served by the national road network, In urban areas, >> they form the other major cross-town routes. Usually 3-digit routes, or >> secondary national roads. >> *Secondary - In rural areas, roads that link municipalities to the >> primary network. In urban areas, they are minor arteries, which are not >> numbered national roads nor barangay roads, and, connects >> barangays/districts to the primary network. >> *Tertiary - In rural areas, roads that connect barangays into the >> secondary roads and higher. In urban areas, collector roads that are >> generally at the heart of a barangay or district. >> * Unclassified - All other roads that do not fit tertiary or
Re: [talk-ph] Revisiting road classifications
Hi, I am not convinced that we should take DPWH's road classifications with great weight in refining OSMPH's road classification. Note that "National Road" does not mean that the road is functionally important but rather it only means that DPWH is the government agency in charge of maintaining such roads as opposed to LGUs. I also understand that DPWH classifies National Roads as either expressway, primary, secondary, or tertiary, but looking at the following map of National Roads in Metro Manila, I do not quite agree with DPWH's classifications at least with respect to OSM: http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/dpwh/2018%20DPWH%20ATLAS/Road%20Data%202016/NCR.jpg ~Eugene On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 3:13 PM Jherome Miguel wrote: > With the Department of Public Works and Highways introducing route numbers > and reworking the road classifications since 2014, it seems the road > classifications also need to be revamped. > > The 2014 DPWH classifications are: > > *Expressway > *National road > ** National primary road (1-2 digit routes) > ** National secondary road (3-digit routes) > ** National tertiary road > *Provincial road > *City/municipal road > *Barangay road > > while the older classifications are: > > *Expressway > *National roads > **North-South Backbone > **East-West Laterals > **Other Roads of Strategic Importance > *Provincial roads > *City/municipal road > *Barangay road > > The introduction of route numbers and more specific national road classes > also meant reconsidering how we should use classifications. I agree trunk > would include the major national roads that form critical links between > cities and provinces, but I disagree with the present usage of primary. > There are many usages of the primary tag on roads classified as provincial > and below, which is not reflective of actual traffic patterns. It was > previously proposed in 2009 that primary should be restricted to the > national roads (see > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2010-January/001693.html), > but the plan seems to have stalled. > > The proposal I have considered, which largely adapted from the conventions > in Canada and Australia, is: > > *Trunk - major national roads that connect major cities (population > 100k+), and forms the national transportation backbone. Usually 1 to > 2-digit routes, or the primary national roads. > *Primary - all other national roads that connect other cities and > municipalities not served by the national road network, In urban areas, > they form the other major cross-town routes. Usually 3-digit routes, or > secondary national roads. > *Secondary - In rural areas, roads that link municipalities to the primary > network. In urban areas, they are minor arteries, which are not numbered > national roads nor barangay roads, and, connects barangays/districts to the > primary network. > *Tertiary - In rural areas, roads that connect barangays into the > secondary roads and higher. In urban areas, collector roads that are > generally at the heart of a barangay or district. > * Unclassified - All other roads that do not fit tertiary or residential. > > The system is largely based on usage over official designation, as > matching OSM's road classes with the Philippine government road > designations is far illogical, as they do not clearly convey their main > traffic usage. Our previous two guidelines basically follow the same > principle, but are quite flawed. > > I am also considering eliminating the "living street" classification from > the existing guidelines, but I have my second thoughts, especially for > narrow ones that a typical motorcycle can enter. > > Some open questions: > > 1. How should we classify roads like Daang Hari, C-6/Laguna Lakeshore > Highway, and C-5 Extension, which are major intercity routes but not > national roads? > > 2. How should bypasses and diversion routes of national roads be > classified? > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Revisiting road classifications
With the Department of Public Works and Highways introducing route numbers and reworking the road classifications since 2014, it seems the road classifications also need to be revamped. The 2014 DPWH classifications are: *Expressway *National road ** National primary road (1-2 digit routes) ** National secondary road (3-digit routes) ** National tertiary road *Provincial road *City/municipal road *Barangay road while the older classifications are: *Expressway *National roads **North-South Backbone **East-West Laterals **Other Roads of Strategic Importance *Provincial roads *City/municipal road *Barangay road The introduction of route numbers and more specific national road classes also meant reconsidering how we should use classifications. I agree trunk would include the major national roads that form critical links between cities and provinces, but I disagree with the present usage of primary. There are many usages of the primary tag on roads classified as provincial and below, which is not reflective of actual traffic patterns. It was previously proposed in 2009 that primary should be restricted to the national roads (see https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ph/2010-January/001693.html), but the plan seems to have stalled. The proposal I have considered, which largely adapted from the conventions in Canada and Australia, is: *Trunk - major national roads that connect major cities (population 100k+), and forms the national transportation backbone. Usually 1 to 2-digit routes, or the primary national roads. *Primary - all other national roads that connect other cities and municipalities not served by the national road network, In urban areas, they form the other major cross-town routes. Usually 3-digit routes, or secondary national roads. *Secondary - In rural areas, roads that link municipalities to the primary network. In urban areas, they are minor arteries, which are not numbered national roads nor barangay roads, and, connects barangays/districts to the primary network. *Tertiary - In rural areas, roads that connect barangays into the secondary roads and higher. In urban areas, collector roads that are generally at the heart of a barangay or district. * Unclassified - All other roads that do not fit tertiary or residential. The system is largely based on usage over official designation, as matching OSM's road classes with the Philippine government road designations is far illogical, as they do not clearly convey their main traffic usage. Our previous two guidelines basically follow the same principle, but are quite flawed. I am also considering eliminating the "living street" classification from the existing guidelines, but I have my second thoughts, especially for narrow ones that a typical motorcycle can enter. Some open questions: 1. How should we classify roads like Daang Hari, C-6/Laguna Lakeshore Highway, and C-5 Extension, which are major intercity routes but not national roads? 2. How should bypasses and diversion routes of national roads be classified? ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
