Thank you to Ron & Alexis for this very useful thread. Alex wrote: >>> > Some tango milonguero dancers would argue that rapid movements and frequent changes of > direction characteristic of many nuevo dancers puts tango milonguero dancers into a > 'defensive driving' mode. And here's where there's a fine line between objecting to style and objecting to rudeness. I know a few couples who're determined to feel "disrupted", and it's then simply a self-fulfilling prophecy fuelled by an overwhelming sense of entitlement. <<<
"Self-fulfilling prophecy" has a ring of truth to me. From the discussion, I picture such a traditionalist getting "disrupted" at the first sight of a colgada at a range of twenty yards, because of what's "probably going to happen when I get near that nuevo guy" - then looking for someone ELSE to blame when his lack of focus on his own tango doesn't fulfill his partner's tango happiness. Ron wrote: > The 'enemy' creates a picture of itself by its self-identification and behavior. The observer has a bit of an effect on the outcome of the picture, don't you think? Lots of research on perception shows that our preferences and beliefs enter into our perception of "objective" reality at a level far below conscious awareness, especially when we have a strong commitment to such beliefs. > In fact, at some point that particular nuevo loses its distinguishing characteristic of exploration > of space and ceases to be nuevo... Ron, you seem to say something to the effect that "if nuevo becomes sufficiently 'social' so as not to be objectionable, it ceases to become 'nuevo'." This makes a great Q.E.D. only if the assertion to be proved is that "'nuevo' is objectionable"! But to your point - again I question your premises. Some perspectives and understandings concerning a given domain are available only to those who pay their dues in that domain. If one only experiences what one calls "nuevo" from the outside, maybe one is not qualified to define its distinguishing characteristics. This lack of understanding is evident in the idea that colgadas and volcadas (for example) can be taught as simple "tricks" without reference to connection skills with your partner and awareness of the dimensions of the available space. The sharing of momentum inherent in the volcada and colgada dynamic requires far MORE connection with your partner than most traditionalist on-axis dancing. And trust me, if you can't execute volcadas without threatening to hit someone, it's time to go back to class or practica to cultivate your spatial awareness - but that doesn't make volcadas themselves objectionable. And well-executed colgadas can take up far LESS space on the floor than the typical ocho-cortado - but give far more pleasure to the follower, in my experience. Try 'em, you (and/or your followers) might like 'em ;> Ron wrote: >>> Can you explain or, better yet, provide a video link to nuevo danced in compressed space on a crowded floor? I would like to be able to recognize it when it occurs. (:->) <<< I think this is a truly interesting challenge, although such a video may need to be created from scratch to clearly demonstrate the desired result. Ron, I'll suggest what I consider some useful parameters to this project, include some provisional values for those parameters to get discussion going, and invite you and anyone else to specify other values to their liking. At least, even if no one makes any videos, the discussion of these parameters will clarify a lot of ambiguities about terms like "compressed space" and "crowded floors". The Parameters: Allowable volume (AV): - One square yard of floor space, extended vertically to the ceiling, within which "nuevo" dancers can move without being considered disruptive by reasonable fellow dancers. Horizontal Velocity of AV: - less than or equal to 1/2 yard per second (or "per musical accent", if you like) in the direction of current line of dance (counterclockwise right angle direction changes required at corners of available space, of course) "Nuevo" Vocabulary: Let's make this unequivocal! The video must include volcadas, colgadas, boleos, enganches, ganchos, and back sacadas. Here are my proposed definitions of these elements (note that no dimensions are mentioned), and again feel free to substitute your own "minimum specs" for a dance to be identified as "nuevo": Volcada - the follower is transferring some of her weight onto her partner in the middle of a dynamic inward-falling move which tilts her axis toward her partner's axis - at the end of which move, her partner eventually returns her to her axis (NOT a "carpa" or static suspension a la Gavito) Colgada - the follower is suspended by the leader through the frame, in an outward hanging displacement of her axis away from her partner's axis, possibly combined with a dynamic rotation around a shared axis, eventually resulting in a return to her own solitary vertical axis. Boleos - Complete and possibly sudden reversal of direction of motion, either translational or rotational, of one or both partners, possibly with feet elevated off the floor inside the AV. Enganches - intertwining legs while moving in a way so as to bring one or both partner's feet off the floor while staying within the AV. Ganchos - a hooking motion of one partner's leg around the other partner's leg or other body part through bending at the knee in the hooking leg which results in the hooking leg's foot off the floor inside the AV. Back sacadas - a displacement of the leg and axis of one partner by the acting partner's axis by means of a back cross step of the acting partner into the previous location of the acted-upon partner. Any comments about the parameter values? Perhaps you can mention what the typical values of AV are at the milongas you frequent during various times of the night. To be clear, in a 15' x 36' space shared by fifteen couples, for each couple equally sharing the space the AV has at its base a square six feet on a side! Gentlemen, start your cameras ;> Alex, you wrote: >>> I've been dancing for long enough to know that the obsession with steps is of all ages and predates "nuevo" by a lot. And a lot of it is actually caused by demand rather than offer, because a couple of decades ago I watched a crowd make Antonio Todaro go nuts by demanding steps, steps, steps and steps even though none of us mastered even the basics of the connection and the walk (but none of us knew better at that time, and that includes me. Fortunately, we've collectively learned a lot since)... Some teachers simply teach too many steps and nothing else because going back to basics is met with a lot of resistance by the audience, which is unwilling to work on basics...And yes, I think we both lament that just as much as the other. <<< Hear, Hear! And thanks for that great Todaro story - wish I'd been there. All the best, Brian Dunn Dance of the Heart www.danceoftheheart.com "Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time" _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l