texascavers Digest 1 Jul 2009 22:06:45 -0000 Issue 789
Topics (messages 11133 through 11154):
Re: Texas in summertime: rattlesnakes
11133 by: Louise Power
11134 by: Fritz Holt
11135 by: Minton, Mark
article on Martian caves
11136 by: Mixon Bill
lava tubes article
11137 by: Mixon Bill
11142 by: Geary Schindel
Kerrville and canoe related
11138 by: David
The caving convention is in need of YOUR help
11139 by: Jon
11140 by: Jon
11145 by: George Veni
moccasin venom
11141 by: Nancy Weaver
July 4th party
11143 by: Geary Schindel
ICS - Do you like beer?!?
11144 by: Joe Ranzau
11146 by: Joe Ranzau
11149 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
Re: Caves, mines, and buried treasures
11147 by: Thomas Sitch
Bandit's Cave in Austin
11148 by: Matt Turner
OT - geology related
11150 by: David
cave fatality in the news today
11151 by: David
Caves in the news
11152 by: David
Bats and WNS on Fox News
11153 by: Minton, Mark
ICS Driver Volunteers
11154 by: Don Arburn
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Andy and all,
I didn't see water moccasins, Agkistrodon piscivorus leucostoma (aka
cottonmouths), on the list and can't remember whether they live in Central
Texas and West Texas or not. I know we had them in East Texas in the lakes and
swamps. They, too, are venemous and should be given a wide berth. Some are
marked similarly to a rattler and have a light colored tail which could be
mistaken for rattles. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_moccasin
for more information.
Louise
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:07:54 -0700
From: andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com
To: o...@texascavers.com; fh...@townandcountryins.com
CC: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas in summertime: rattlesnakes
Hi folks,
The video that Fritz posted links to spurred me to share a few tips on snake
do’s and don’ts. I’ve been answering 2-3 calls per day regarding snake
encounters and it seems appropriate to address the issue with ICS on the
horizon (pardon the pun).
-There are 76 species of snakes in Texas, 11 are venomous.
-The most commonly seen snakes are nonvenomous (Texas rat snake, water snakes)
but the most commonly seen venomous snake (Western diamondback) is quite
dangerous.
-Snakes are generally shy and don't want anything to do with you. Most
rattlesnakes go undetected because they choose to sit quiet and hide rather
than get in a confrontation with some dangerous human.
-Common sense dicates that you watch where you put your hands and feet.
However, some cave entrances are rattler magnets. Toss a few pebbles down the
entrance or probe the entrance with a long stick to determine if it is
occupied. To the uninitiated: the warning rattle of a rattlesnake sounds like
running water or a swarm of buzzing bees. You'll know when you hear it.
-Rattlesnakes can only strike about 1/3 of their total length. Given that the
Texas record Western diamondback was about 7ft (2m), that means that even the
biggest snake would not be able to strike you from only a yard (1m away).
However, it is best to give them all the room you can.
-The typical snakebite victim is a male between the ages of 18 and 25 with a
blood alcohol concentration of >0.08%, too drunk to drive. Most snakebites are
on the hand or foot. The most common sound heard just before a snakebite is
"Hey guys, check this out! I'm gonna kill me a rattler!"
I hope everyone finds this helpful.
Andy
Andy Gluesenkamp, PhD
Herpetologist
Nongame & Rare Species
Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
(512) 389-8722
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com
--- On Mon, 6/29/09, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com> wrote:
From: Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>
Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Rattlesnake at Falcon Lake
To: "Off Topic" <o...@texascavers.com>
Cc: "texascavers@texascavers.com" <texascavers@texascavers.com>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 1:22 PM
Forwarded advice for caving friends, especially in Texas.
Fritz
;
Subject: Rattlesnake at Falcon Lake
http://bassfan.com/tv_play.asp?id=119
Click on this! This guy is crazy! Gives me the ‘hebeegeebies’ didn’t realize
rattlesnakes could float in the water if they stopped moving, and coiled up… I
couldn’t help but laugh even though I related to the son- who was very nervous
and just wanted to get the heck out of there he wasn’t at all as interested as
his dad was!
For some of you I already forwarded the advisories that have been issued with
as many as 5 people treated at our local hospital for snake bites and lots more
in Austin and the surrounding counties-with this heat- they like all critters
are looking for cool places and WATER sources! ( Who sits with a big pond in
her backyard full of frogs!!! Dinner and a drink! ) Got me on the look out
that is for sure, not too keen being out after dark moving water hoses!
Everyone be careful- watch when you open outside doors- before stepping out-
they are known to lay where they get some cool from concrete or the shade of
overhangs and possibly cool air seeping out under the door!!! Would certainly
ruin your day! We are having the rattlesnakes and the flatlanders are adding
the copperheads as well!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if it is true but I have heard that ounce for ounce, moccasin
venom is more dangerous than our other pit vipers. Something to do with
different properties in their venom. Andy?
Fritz
________________________________
From: Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:28 PM
To: a...@gluesenkamp.com; Off-Topic Texas Cavers; Fritz Holt
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas in summertime: rattlesnakes
Andy and all,
I didn't see water moccasins, Agkistrodon piscivorus leucostoma (aka
cottonmouths), on the list and can't remember whether they live in Central
Texas and West Texas or not. I know we had them in East Texas in the lakes and
swamps. They, too, are venemous and should be given a wide berth. Some are
marked similarly to a rattler and have a light colored tail which could be
mistaken for rattles. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_moccasin
for more information.
Louise
________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Louise Power said:
>I didn't see water moccasins, Agkistrodon piscivorus leucostoma (aka
>cottonmouths), on the list and can't remember whether they live in Central
>Texas and West Texas or not.
Water moccasins definitely live in Honey Creek. I've seen a couple of
them in pools downstream from the cave. I've never seen one in the pool right
outside the spring entrance to the cave, but I sure wouldn't be surprised if
they live there. Use caution when swimming!
Mark Minton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That review article on Martian caves probably hasn't actually been
published yet. The publisher's web site shows it as "corrected proof."
Anyway, they want _$31.50_ to download a copy of the full article.
Whom do they think they're kidding? You'll be able to copy it at any
university library for a couple of bucks.--Mixon
---------------------------------------------
When God created man, He overestimated His abilities.
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a one-page article with essentially the same title (except
for "a review") and the same authors at http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2007/pdf/1446.pdf
. -- Mixon
---------------------------------------------
More is not necessarily better, but it frequently is.
----------------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
We're holding a Bexar Grotto party on Saturday, July 4th in San Antonio. This
will be a pot luck party at the Schindel's from 4 pm to whenever. We'll have
some adult beverages and the grill will be fired up. You may want to bring a
dish (food or friend) or beverages if so inclined. Bring some pictures as
we'll have both a powerpoint projector and slide projector for those
interested.
There may be a possibility of a caving trip around 8 AM for those interested in
doing a small vertical cave in the San Antonio area. Contact me if you're
interested in the cave trip.
Address is 11310 Whisper Dawn, San Antonio 78230. Phone is 210-479-2151.
Hope to see you there.
Geary
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--- Begin Message ---
In downtown Kerrville, there is a bridge project over the Guadalupe
River at Louise Hays Park.
This has completely closed the river off and there are signs and
construction fencing around the
project telling people they will be fined if they enter the project area.
Here is the TXDOT notice for anyone wishing to canoe or kayak in the area.
There are two channels beneath the bridge. The north channel is
"closed" and will remain closed for another
month or two. The south channel is open, and will remain open.
We ( TXDOT ) have a floating boom stretched across the channel,
but it should be easily traversed by either kayaks or canoes.
It is very similar to the device that is used to separate lanes
in a swimming pool, and it is use to try
to ensure that we do not contaminate the river.
The channels he is referring to are separated by the upstream tip of
Tranquility Island. That is the
island in the middle of the park where, people just walk around and
admire the cypress trees along
the bank.
http://www.bigrigtravels.com/gallery/6448819_waGgf/1/408715182_EF3DP/Medium
David Locklear
Related news:
Be careful swimming there, as they had a drowning last week.
http://www.kens5.com/news/stories/KENS20090623-KerrvilleDrowning.1c68829c.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
The NSS and ICS caving convention is happening very, VERY soon.
On 11-12 July weekend we will be construction the campground facilities, roping
off the area, building art salon displays, and lots more needs to be done for
our caver friends from around the world.
We need every ones help to make this a successfully and fun caving convention.
I don't think we want folks saying want a bad convention the Texas Cavers put
together.
If you can come and help for the weekend, or any part of it, please show up.
We will be camping on campus Friday and Sat night. And remember, the Guadalupe
River is only a few minute walk from the campground. The more help we can get
now the easier it will be for everyone later.
Thanks for you consideration,
Jon Cradit
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers,
The NSS and ICS caving convention is happening very, VERY soon.
On 11-12 July weekend we will be construction the campground facilities, roping
off the area, building art salon displays, and lots more needs to be done for
our caver friends from around the world.
We need every ones help to make this a successfully and fun caving convention.
I don't think we want folks saying want a bad convention the Texas Cavers put
together.
If you can come and help for the weekend, or any part of it, please show up.
We will be camping on campus Friday and Sat night. And remember, the Guadalupe
River is only a few minute walk from the campground. The more help we can get
now the easier it will be for everyone later.
Thanks for you consideration,
Jon Cradit
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let me add that to find us, do not enter the main campus entrance on Highway
27. Drive about half a mile north (toward downtown Kerrville) and turn right
on Travis Street. Enter through the gate on your right, just past the
historic church on the corner. From there keep turning right and head toward
the big trees along the creek bed.
Many thanks,
George
From: Jon [mailto:cavefa...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:01 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] The caving convention is in need of YOUR help
Cavers,
The NSS and ICS caving convention is happening very, VERY soon.
On 11-12 July weekend we will be construction the campground facilities,
roping off the area, building art salon displays, and lots more needs to be
done for our caver friends from around the world.
We need every ones help to make this a successfully and fun caving
convention.
I don't think we want folks saying want a bad convention the Texas Cavers
put together.
If you can come and help for the weekend, or any part of it, please show up.
We will be camping on campus Friday and Sat night. And remember, the
Guadalupe River is only a few minute walk from the campground. The more
help we can get now the easier it will be for everyone later.
Thanks for you consideration,
Jon Cradit
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know if it is true but I have heard that ounce for ounce,
moccasin venom is more dangerous than our other pit vipers. Something
to do with different properties in their venom.
dont know about that, but a friend was struck on a dry path at a
state park 3 weeks ago and the anti venin, according to the hospital
is $25,000/ per dose. she had two . . . . and is now fine.
Nancy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry folks, we have a new email system and it bounced this message originally
so I hit the reply all button for one of Bill M's earlier emails. This isn't
about lave tubes but about a party.
Geary
Folks,
We're holding a Bexar Grotto party on Saturday, July 4th in San Antonio. This
will be a pot luck party at the Schindel's from 4 pm to whenever. We'll have
some adult beverages and the grill will be fired up. You may want to bring a
dish (food or friend) or beverages if so inclined. Bring some pictures as
we'll have both a powerpoint projector and slide projector for those
interested.
There may be a possibility of a caving trip around 8 AM for those interested in
doing a small vertical cave in the San Antonio area. Contact me if you're
interested in the cave trip.
Address is 11310 Whisper Dawn, San Antonio 78230. Phone is 210-479-2151.
Hope to see you there.
Geary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you hate waiting in a really long line for free beer? The ICS needs your
help! We are short a few keg taps and need assistance locating some
reasonably priced ones. If you have one you are willing to let us use for
free that would be great!
Assuming most folks don't have a tap lying around... Often they show up on
Craigslist in Austin and other college towns for around $20-30 bucks...
Please contact me if you would be willing to do a bit of bargain hunting and
pick up a couple for us. We would reimburse you for any approved purchases.
Talk to me first before buying. If you could help out that would be
awesome!
Joe
j...@oztotl.com
210.289.6839
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--- Begin Message ---
Many thanks to go to Bill Steele and several other folks! We have more than
enough free taps to keep the beer flowing!
Joe
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Joe Ranzau <jran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you hate waiting in a really long line for free beer? The ICS needs
> your help! We are short a few keg taps and need assistance locating some
> reasonably priced ones. If you have one you are willing to let us use for
> free that would be great!
>
> Assuming most folks don't have a tap lying around... Often they show up on
> Craigslist in Austin and other college towns for around $20-30 bucks...
> Please contact me if you would be willing to do a bit of bargain hunting and
> pick up a couple for us. We would reimburse you for any approved purchases.
> Talk to me first before buying. If you could help out that would be
> awesome!
>
> Joe
> j...@oztotl.com
> 210.289.6839
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Make sure they fit the kegs..
Do you hate waiting in a really long line for free beer? The ICS needs your help! We are short a few keg taps and need assistance locating some reasonably priced ones. If you have one you are willing to let us use for free that would be great!
Assuming most folks don't have a tap lying around... Often they show up on Craigslist in Austin and other college towns for around $20-30 bucks... Please contact me if you would be willing to do a bit of bargain hunting and pick up a couple for us. We would reimburse you for any approved purchases. Talk to me first before buying. If you could help out that would be awesome!
Joe
j...@oztotl.com
210.289.6839
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
Very interesting! I grew up exploring a set of caves and silver mines in
Orange County California, so the story of Silver Mine and Powell's is all the
more compelling for me.**
My father and grandfather were both treasure hunters, so the lore I've gathered
from everyone has certainly spiced up my view of the rock trails and caves of
Central Texas. Thanks to everyone who's written me; it looks like Coronado's
Children is a must-read, and I have some interesting lore for the Austin
Adventure guide.
Best Regards,
~~Thomas
** Aside: The Blue Light Mine (outside Silverado, CA) discovered the natural
caves quite tragically in the nineteenth century, as they were water filled
until a miner discovered them. The resulting flood killed two mules and five
miners, if I recall correctly. The cave section remains treacherous; some of
its areas have air so bad they put out my father's carbide lamp. A few years
after I moved to Texas I learned that some teenagers asphyxiated in them.
--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Minton, Mark <mmin...@nmhu.edu> wrote:
From: Minton, Mark <mmin...@nmhu.edu>
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Gold mines in Texas
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 1:00 PM
John Brooks said:
>In southern Oklahoma (north of here, in case you were wondering)........there
>are legends of someone absconding with 20 “jackloads” of gold....
Hmm, that is suspiciously similar to some of the legends of the lost
Bowie Mine around Menard. (What's a jackload? Probably something that a mule
could carry. See
<http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/2009/05/in-stephens-county-oklahoma-near-town.html>.)
Texas cavers used to have access to a cave called Silver Mine quite close to
Powell's. They are hydrologically related but so far not physically connected.
Silver Mine has several entrances, most of which are artificial shafts sunk
into the natural cave. At one time they had actually disassembled a bulldozer,
taken it down a shaft, and reassembled it in the cave to move fill around in
search of gold. I've seen it, and it's ptrobably still there. They never
found anything, but someone sunk a lot of money into looking. That cave still
has good leads, and sits in a strategic position between Powell's and the
rumored "Meteor Crater" which was a collapse feature into a
stream passage that has since filled in. I spent a lot of time at Silver Mine
with William Russell, Jerry Atkinson and others in the '80's. That would be a
nice cave to get back into. You can see a composite line plot in "50 Years of
Texas Caving" at
<http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/50_Years/Powell%27s_Cave.pdf>.
There are also several pages devoted to treasure hunting in Texas caves
in "Natural History of Texas Caves" by Lundelius and Slaughter (1971),
including the San Saba and Bowie stories. Here's another source of Texas
treasure legends: <http://www.legendsofamerica.com/TX-Treasure6.html>.
Mark Minton
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--- Begin Message ---
Does any one have access to Bandit's cave in Austin....well rollingwood? This
looks pretty interesting and I would love to see it.
Matt Turner
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it." - Aristotle
"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
that."- Norman Vincent Peale
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--- Begin Message ---
This should be of interest to some cavers.
Geologist have often thought that the athenosphere in the earth was a
giant circulating flow of magma.
But a group of geologist have discovered what they claim is a giant blob in
the earth below the state of Nevada, that is hanging from the ceiling of the
lithosphere like a blob in a Lava Lamp.
http://news.aol.com/article/giant-blob-in-nevada/499851
They propose that it has been hanging there for millions of years.
Wouldn't that be an under-magma snottite ?
Is this the earth's largest speleothem?
It has been hanging for millions of years, just like a stalactite.
Wouldn't any mineral formation that had crystalized under the lithosphere
be a speleothem ? I guess the rock boundary would be void of crystals,
since the temperature is supposedly around 1000 degrees F, but wouldn't
the high pressure offset that ?
I guess it doesn't matter, since it can't be collected or photographed.
But if they could detect a kilometer long stalactite made out of some obscure
mineral with a high boiling point, wouldn't that be fascinating ?
David Locklear
Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snottite
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2009/06/30/top/55lo_090630_cave.txt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bloomington Cave in Utah made the news.
The BLM, on July 6th, will start limiting access to the cave.
http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/info/newsroom/2009/june/blm_to_implement_new.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
|
Earlier this week Fox News had a report about bats, how beneficial they are, and about White Nose Syndrome. See it at <http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/23751735/white-nose-syndrome.htm#q=White+Nose+Syndrome>. Accompanying the video is a machine-generated transcript which is even worse than machine translations of written text. It is obvious their speech-recognition software has a long way to go. One amusing tidbit: it transcribed "insects" as "in sex".
Mark Minton
|
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--- Begin Message ---
This email is to A) inform folks that Saturday July 18 is Van Pickup
Day at Capps and Enterprise and
B) request from drivers the times they can drive.
I realize many of you have informed me of your requested volunteer
times already, however many things have changed for some of you, and
me as well. Please re-iterate and remind me of your desired driving
times and dates.
A) First is the Van Pickup Day. On Saturday July 18, 18 Vans will be
picked up from Capps near the San Antonio Airport. 4 Vans are being
picked up by other volunteers for their own use to move equipment to
Kerrville and 3 vans are being picked up by San Antonio Airport
Shuttle volunteers for use between the Airport and Kerrville for
airport arrival guests. That leaves 11 Vans from Capps and 4 vans
From Enterprise. I am in charge of retrieving the Capps Vans and Don
Broussard is in charge of retrieving Enterprise Vans. I need 10
volunteers to pick up Vans at Capps. Don B. will need three or four
for his vans. Contact Don B., to help him, at don.brouss...@att.net
The times of the Van pickups is flexible that day. However I will be
taking a Van from Kerrville that morning, with any available drivers
already in Kerrville, and heading to Capps in San Antonio first thing
Saturday. The 11 vans will be picked up, driven to the Airport to pick
up any travelers and head to Kerrville and dropped at the motor pool.
This IS in addition to the Airport Shuttles already doing the Airport
run, this is just a matter of assisting them, and it's on the way.
Details to be announced later.
Who can help me with this?
I need ten people over 25 years of age.
Sunday July 26 and Monday July 27 these vans need to be returned from
Kerrville to San Antonio. Each day will be about 15 vans, give or take.
Who can help me with this?
Don Broussard needs folks to help him pick up 4 Vans from Enterprise,
located at 1505 Harry Wurzbach near the Fort Sam Houston National
Cemetery in San Antonio and take them to Kerrville that same day.
Who can help with this? These need to be returned Monday the 27 as well.
B) I need to know WHEN you are available, SPECIFICALLY, to help for
trips. Most Caving trips have drivers already, however there are
several Cultural trips needing drivers as well.
I will begin assigning drivers to vans ASAP. Please get ahold of me NOW.
Thanks for your help, it will be fun!
My mobile and primary phone number is (361) 362-3677
---
Don Arburn
donarb...@mac.com
2009 15th International
Congress of Speleology
Transportation Coordinator
NSS# 56822RL
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