texascavers Digest 12 Dec 2008 00:02:15 -0000 Issue 666
Topics (messages 9648 through 9659):
Re: Harry Walker
9648 by: Fritz Holt
9650 by: CaverArch
Man breaks leg in New Braunfels cave
9649 by: CWAN.boernenet.com
Cave accident in New Braunfels
9651 by: Jon Cradit
9652 by: Jim Kennedy
9653 by: J. LaRue Thomas
9659 by: Matt Turner
OT - another good cheap LED flashlight
9654 by: David
OT - price of gas
9655 by: David
9656 by: Fritz Holt
9657 by: Brian Riordan
9658 by: Fritz Holt
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--- Begin Message ---
Jenny's politics (and that of her sister) fit right in with the caving
fraternity's. Where did I go wrong? I love them anyway.
Their Dad
________________________________
From: Jenny Holt [mailto:jhol...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:55 AM
To: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org; David; texas cavers
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Harry Walker
Hi David,
I've only met you at TCR this past year, (tuna fish sandwich), but I've been
reading your posts (not the LED ones) for the past few years and think you are
a very interesting person. I love that you take such an interest in the caving
community and yet claim to be an armchair caver. I also admire that you took
such an interest in Harry Walker. Until this last post of yours, I hadn't
realized that you had known him from the past. I thought your IKE help was from
knowing his previous caver status, not that you'd met and spent time with him
in the past. Kudos to you! I'm sad to hear of his passing, but glad that you
were there at the end to help with his hurricane dilema. You know he felt
comfort and relief from your presence in that horrible time. Good luck in your
job hunt and don't forget that you will be blessed for your kind
deeds...eventually. (Life is tough, and then you die) A saying I remember from
the 80's but not sure of actuallity!
Cheers,
Jenny Holt
(Not to be confused with my REPUBLICAN father, Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:20:21 -0600
> From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
> To: dlocklea...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Harry Walker
>
> David,
>
> Well done,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:05 PM
> To: Texascavers Mailing List
> Subject: [Texascavers] Harry Walker
>
> I will let someone who knew Harry back in his heyday describe him.
>
>
> I met Harry in 1989 at a Houston Grotto Meeting. He appeared to be
> in his
> late sixties, but he showed slide shows of recent caving trips to the
> Sierra Madres. I
> was very impressed with his slideshows and his enthusiasm. He was
> always
> inviting me to go on his trips, and I always had to turn him down,
> because I couldn't
> get off school or work, or it conflicted with going to the NSS
> Convention.
>
> Harry and I did got to TCR a few times together, the last being the big
> flood at
> Chalk Bluff. And I tried my best to get him to go with me to the
> TCR, just a few weeks ago.
>
> In 1998, Harry invited me on what would be his last attempt to complete
> all the
> 14'ers in Colorado. But he planned the trip during the Tennessee
> NSS Convention,
> which I was greatly looking forward to. I had to make a tough
> call, as I knew
> Harry was 70 something, and I would never again get the privilege of
> climbing
> with him. We tried Mt. Anterra, Greys Peak and Torrey's Peak.
> Harry would
> have made it to the top had he been with an experienced person, but I
> had never
> been mountain climbing and I was way too out of shape. We later went
> rafting
> thru Brown's Canyon on the Arkansas River near Salado, Colorado.
>
> http://www.atraft.com/8-8-03%2017%20C3_small2.jpg
>
> Harry was flipped out at Snider's Suckhole and we thought he may have
> drowned.
> It was a very tense moment waiting for someone to find him and pull
> him out of the
> eddy like water.
>
> Harry apparently started caving in the 1940's, back east somewhere.
> He had
> a low NSS number. I saw him climb rope at a vertical practice
> about 10 years
> ago, and he did fine. I think he has been into Purificacion.
> I know he climbed
> Pico Candela, and that inspired me to give it a try.
>
> Harry's claim to fame is that he taught his nephew how to cave. His
> nephew
> moved to Arizona, and went caving with some other guy and found a little
> hole
> that they kept secret for many years called "Kartchner Caverns." I
> recall Harry
> talking excited about it back around 1991 or so. He also showed me
> the recent
> book, before I had seen it at the NSS Convention.
>
> Harry became an important role model in my life and I looked to him for
> wisdom.
> He more than anybody else, was the caver that advised me to marry my
> current
> wife. Had he told me to run for the hills instead, I probably would
> have. And
> since I have an incredibly wonderful daughter, I can only tell Harry
> "thank you."
> Harry based this judgement on at least 2 road-trips from Houston with
> my then-girlfriend. One
> to Carta Valley to go in a cave, and the other to at least one TCR (
> 2000 ? ) at
> Flat Creek Ranch.
>
> Hurricane Ike was a stressful event for the Walkers. I think it
> really took a toll
> on Harry. However, what really may have done him in was that he
> lost a
> whole lot of money in his retirement account these past few months.
> It was
> only about 4 weeks ago, that he and I sat down at his dinner table and
> he told
> me with almost teary eyes that he lost a great deal of money. I can
> only guess
> that means 100,000 or more. But he was too upset to talk about it.
> The
> tone of his voice was from someone who was wiped out, not the Harry I
> had known
> for 19 years.
>
> I have been out of work for a few months, and Harry paid me to work in
> his yard
> to clean up the debris left over by Hurricane Ike. It was a real
> mess and he
> really needed someone with big chainsaws and a bobcat with claws on the
> front
> of it. Anyways, I am thankful for him paying me, as it was a big help
> at this
> time.
>
> My daughter met Harry a few times. She temporarily had a pet turtle.
> We
> named it Harry.
>
> Harry always wanted to go to Houston Grotto meetings but it was a very
> difficult
> drive for him from Dickinson. For a while, another caver, Ray
> Hertel, was kind
> enough to bring him to the meetings. I guess it has been 5 years
> since he
> was able to attend one, so none of the new cavers know him.
>
> I think Harry spent most of his working life for a company called
> Monsato. He
> may have been a chemical engineer, but I don't remember.
>
> Again, I will let someone who knew more about him, tell Harry's story.
>
>
> David Locklear
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I have to second Jenny Holt's thoughtful comments regarding David's post on
Harry, as well as his actual help to Harry and Dorothy in the wake of Ike.
David catches a bit of kidding for his posts (which do sometimes fall into the
"too much information" category), but his posts on (and devotion too) Harry
Walker are admirable.
Incidentally, the only new Harry fact I can contribute is that he was a
navigator on a bomber in the European theater during World War II. We talked
about this on, I believe, the trip David organized to the unusual sandstone
Gunnel Cave in East Texas.
Roger
In a message dated 12/11/08 01:55:01 Central Standard Time, jhol...@hotmail.com
writes:
Hi David,
I've only met you at TCR this past year, (tuna fish sandwich), but I've been
reading your posts (not the LED ones) for the past few years and think you are
a very interesting person. I love that you take such an interest in the caving
community and yet claim to be an armchair caver. I also admire that you took
such an interest in Harry Walker. Until this last post of yours, I hadn't
realized that you had known him from the past. I thought your IKE help was from
knowing his previous caver status, not that you'd met and spent time with him
in the past. Kudos to you! I'm sad to hear of his passing, but glad that you
were there at the end to help with his hurricane dilema. You know he felt
comfort and relief from your presence in that horrible time. Good luck in your
job hunt and don't forget that you will be blessed for your kind
deeds...eventually. (Life is tough, and then you die) A saying I remember from
the 80's but not sure of actuallity!
Cheers,
Jenny Holt
(Not to be confused with my REPUBLICAN father, Fritz)
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:20:21 -0600
> From: gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org
> To: dlocklea...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Harry Walker
>
> David,
>
> Well done,
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:05 PM
> To: Texascavers Mailing List
> Subject: [Texascavers] Harry Walker
>
> I will let someone who knew Harry back in his heyday describe him.
>
>
> I met Harry in 1989 at a Houston Grotto Meeting. He appeared to be
> in his
> late sixties, but he showed slide shows of recent caving trips to the
> Sierra Madres. I
> was very impressed with his slideshows and his enthusiasm. He was
> always
> inviting me to go on his trips, and I always had to turn him down,
> because I couldn't
> get off school or work, or it conflicted with going to the NSS
> Convention.
>
> Harry and I did got to TCR a few times together, the last being the big
> flood at
> Chalk Bluff. And I tried my best to get him to go with me to the
> TCR, just a few weeks ago.
>
> In 1998, Harry invited me on what would be his last attempt to complete
> all the
> 14'ers in Colorado. But he planned the trip during the Tennessee
> NSS Convention,
> which I was greatly looking forward to. I had to make a tough
> call, as I knew
> Harry was 70 something, and I would never again get the privilege of
> climbing
> with him. We tried Mt. Anterra, Greys Peak and Torrey's Peak.
> Harry would
> have made it to the top had he been with an experienced person, but I
> had never
> been mountain climbing and I was way too out of shape. We later went
> rafting
> thru Brown's Canyon on the Arkansas River near Salado, Colorado.
>
> http://www.atraft.com/8-8-03%2017%20C3_small2.jpg
>
> Harry was flipped out at Snider's Suckhole and we thought he may have
> drowned.
> It was a very tense moment waiting for someone to find him and pull
> him out of the
> eddy like water.
>
> Harry apparently started caving in the 1940's, back east somewhere.
> He had
> a low NSS number. I saw him climb rope at a vertical practice
> about 10 years
> ago, and he did fine. I think he has been into Purificacion.
> I know he climbed
> Pico Candela, and that inspired me to give it a try.
>
> Harry's claim to fame is that he taught his nephew how to cave. His
> nephew
> moved to Arizona, and went caving with some other guy and found a little
> hole
> that they kept secret for many years called "Kartchner Caverns." I
> recall Harry
> talking excited about it back around 1991 or so. He also showed me
> the recent
> book, before I had seen it at the NSS Convention.
>
> Harry became an important role model in my life and I looked to him for
> wisdom.
> He more than anybody else, was the caver that advised me to marry my
> current
> wife. Had he told me to run for the hills instead, I probably would
> have. And
> since I have an incredibly wonderful daughter, I can only tell Harry
> "thank you."
> Harry based this judgement on at least 2 road-trips from Houston with
> my then-girlfriend. One
> to Carta Valley to go in a cave, and the other to at least one TCR (
> 2000 ? ) at
> Flat Creek Ranch.
>
> Hurricane Ike was a stressful event for the Walkers. I think it
> really took a toll
> on Harry. However, what really may have done him in was that he
> lost a
> whole lot of money in his retirement account these past few months.
> It was
> only about 4 weeks ago, that he and I sat down at his dinner table and
> he told
> me with almost teary eyes that he lost a great deal of money. I can
> only guess
> that means 100,000 or more. But he was too upset to talk about it.
> The
> tone of his voice was from someone who was wiped out, not the Harry I
> had known
> for 19 years.
>
> I have been out of work for a few months, and Harry paid me to work in
> his yard
> to clean up the debris left over by Hurricane Ike. It was a real
> mess and he
> really needed someone with big chainsaws and a bobcat with claws on the
> front
> of it. Anyways, I am thankful for him paying me, as it was a big help
> at this
> time.
>
> My daughter met Harry a few times. She temporarily had a pet turtle.
> We
> named it Harry.
>
> Harry always wanted to go to Houston Grotto meetings but it was a very
> difficult
> drive for him from Dickinson. For a while, another caver, Ray
> Hertel, was kind
> enough to bring him to the meetings. I guess it has been 5 years
> since he
> was able to attend one, so none of the new cavers know him.
>
> I think Harry spent most of his working life for a company called
> Monsato. He
> may have been a chemical engineer, but I don't remember.
>
> Again, I will let someone who knew more about him, tell Harry's story.
>
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My Mom called me at 7:30 this morning to tell me that someone broke their
leg in a cave in New Braunfels. I looked it up and it's there in the
Herald Zeitung. He is 50 years old. He slid 50 feet then fell 25. That's
all the information their giving out. This happened yesterday, who is it?
I guess the fire department did the rescue, was anyone else called? What
about this cave? My Mom told me it's near John Newcomb Tennis Ranch.
Mike Burrell
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://herald-zeitung.com/story.lasso?ewcd=40742c686e3b489b&-session=Her
aldZeitung:4830E2641d9141C487tNU2444D85
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doncha just LOVE misplaced modifiers?
"and was rescued with cuts, bruises and a possible broken leg."
Sounds like he was OK until the rescuers showed up!
-- Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Cradit [mailto:jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:02 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave accident in New Braunfels
http://herald-zeitung.com/story.lasso?ewcd=40742c686e3b489b&-session=Her
aldZeitung:4830E2641d9141C487tNU2444D85
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--- Begin Message ---
Maybe he was... Jacq.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Kennedy" <jkenn...@batcon.org>
To: "Jon Cradit" <jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org>; <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cave accident in New Braunfels
Doncha just LOVE misplaced modifiers?
"and was rescued with cuts, bruises and a possible broken leg."
Sounds like he was OK until the rescuers showed up!
-- Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Cradit [mailto:jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:02 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave accident in New Braunfels
http://herald-zeitung.com/story.lasso?ewcd=40742c686e3b489b&-session=Her
aldZeitung:4830E2641d9141C487tNU2444D85
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--- Begin Message ---
That is pretty awesome. Didn't you get the memo, to make the newspapers more
money, we're to make sure all cave incidences include at least one broken bone?
Seriously though do we know this person? It says they where looking for caves
so I would think so.
Matt Turner
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it." - Aristotle
"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
that."- Norman Vincent Peale
________________________________
From: Jim Kennedy <jkenn...@batcon.org>
To: Jon Cradit <jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org>; texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:10:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Cave accident in New Braunfels
Doncha just LOVE misplaced modifiers?
"and was rescued with cuts, bruises and a possible broken leg."
Sounds like he was OK until the rescuers showed up!
-- Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Cradit [mailto:jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:02 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave accident in New Braunfels
http://herald-zeitung.com/story.lasso?ewcd=40742c686e3b489b&-session=Her
aldZeitung:4830E2641d9141C487tNU2444D85
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Walgreens of all places has a new LED flashlight that I can
recommend.
It has 17 LED's, fits in the palm of your hand, and has a dimming
switch to operate on just 6 LED's to save your batteries.
It only cost $ 9.99 plus tax.
I tested it last night, and it is has good quality construction and
certainly worth the price.
If you take it apart and see how it is constructed, you will see that
it is built much better than the cheap LED headlamps that are on
the market.
The light pattern is suitable for most caving.
This flashlight appears durable enough for just about any caving trip.
It would need some sealing in a few places before a trip to Honeycreek,
but it could survive if modified properly.
I only wish they had designed the lens cap a little better.
You could possibly mount the flashlight on the side of your caving
helmet.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw gas for $ 1.34 yesterday.
I heard one analyst say that if the economy continues at its current pace, that
gas could fall to 99 cents per gallon in some places.
Where I live, there does not appear to be a decrease in demand for gas, so to
me the huge price drop of $ 2.50 per gallon seems surprising. I am not going
to complain though.
I feel that someone illegally profited from the sale of gas this past
summer when
gas prices were at an all-time high. Maybe it wasn't illegal, but
certainly greedy,
or something like price-gouging.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oil companies are complaining because oil has dropped from $140. a barrel to
below $50. Some years back when oil was at or below $20. they said if only the
price could get back to $30. Although, I have read where the oil
companies/refiners do not make a higher percentage of profit when oil prices
are high. There are advantages and disadvantages when oil and Gasoline prices
are high. I personally prefer it at the current price of $1.48 at Sam's.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:26 PM
To: Texascavers Mailing List
Subject: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
I saw gas for $ 1.34 yesterday.
I heard one analyst say that if the economy continues at its current pace, that
gas could fall to 99 cents per gallon in some places.
Where I live, there does not appear to be a decrease in demand for gas, so to
me the huge price drop of $ 2.50 per gallon seems surprising. I am not going
to complain though.
I feel that someone illegally profited from the sale of gas this past
summer when
gas prices were at an all-time high. Maybe it wasn't illegal, but
certainly greedy,
or something like price-gouging.
David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---
It all depends. A classic Texas gusher takes nothing to get a lot.
Deepwater fields cost a certain amount to initiate, produce and transport,
if the current price doesn't offset that, they lose, while the Texas gusher
may still make money. Canadian Oil Sands require even more to upgrade the
oil (besides, who the hell wants to work in Northern Alberta, just take a
look at housing prices!
http://www.colinhartigan.com/view_listing.php?listing=mls&id=8320001070)- it
takes so much energy to produce the crude oil here, that without a high oil
price, it doesn't make sense to dig it up. If a company initiates a project
because it became economical at 80 bucks a barrel, they may lose money on
that field for every day of production under 80 bucks/barrel, while the
Texas gusher STILL makes money. To oversimplify...
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Fritz Holt <fh...@townandcountryins.com>wrote:
> Oil companies are complaining because oil has dropped from $140. a barrel
> to below $50. Some years back when oil was at or below $20. they said if
> only the price could get back to $30. Although, I have read where the oil
> companies/refiners do not make a higher percentage of profit when oil prices
> are high. There are advantages and disadvantages when oil and Gasoline
> prices are high. I personally prefer it at the current price of $1.48 at
> Sam's.
> Fritz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:26 PM
> To: Texascavers Mailing List
> Subject: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
>
> I saw gas for $ 1.34 yesterday.
>
> I heard one analyst say that if the economy continues at its current pace,
> that
> gas could fall to 99 cents per gallon in some places.
>
> Where I live, there does not appear to be a decrease in demand for gas, so
> to
> me the huge price drop of $ 2.50 per gallon seems surprising. I am not
> going
> to complain though.
>
> I feel that someone illegally profited from the sale of gas this past
> summer when
> gas prices were at an all-time high. Maybe it wasn't illegal, but
> certainly greedy,
> or something like price-gouging.
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was generally referring to imported oil prices and profit margins as that is
where most of it comes from.
Fritz
________________________________
From: Brian Riordan [mailto:riordan.br...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:43 PM
To: Fritz Holt
Cc: David; Texascavers Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
It all depends. A classic Texas gusher takes nothing to get a lot. Deepwater
fields cost a certain amount to initiate, produce and transport, if the current
price doesn't offset that, they lose, while the Texas gusher may still make
money. Canadian Oil Sands require even more to upgrade the oil (besides, who
the hell wants to work in Northern Alberta, just take a look at housing prices!
http://www.colinhartigan.com/view_listing.php?listing=mls&id=8320001070)- it
takes so much energy to produce the crude oil here, that without a high oil
price, it doesn't make sense to dig it up. If a company initiates a project
because it became economical at 80 bucks a barrel, they may lose money on that
field for every day of production under 80 bucks/barrel, while the Texas gusher
STILL makes money. To oversimplify...
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Fritz Holt
<fh...@townandcountryins.com<mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com>> wrote:
Oil companies are complaining because oil has dropped from $140. a barrel to
below $50. Some years back when oil was at or below $20. they said if only the
price could get back to $30. Although, I have read where the oil
companies/refiners do not make a higher percentage of profit when oil prices
are high. There are advantages and disadvantages when oil and Gasoline prices
are high. I personally prefer it at the current price of $1.48 at Sam's.
Fritz
-----Original Message-----
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com<mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:26 PM
To: Texascavers Mailing List
Subject: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
I saw gas for $ 1.34 yesterday.
I heard one analyst say that if the economy continues at its current pace, that
gas could fall to 99 cents per gallon in some places.
Where I live, there does not appear to be a decrease in demand for gas, so to
me the huge price drop of $ 2.50 per gallon seems surprising. I am not going
to complain though.
I feel that someone illegally profited from the sale of gas this past
summer when
gas prices were at an all-time high. Maybe it wasn't illegal, but
certainly greedy,
or something like price-gouging.
David Locklear
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