Never mind, I think I see what's wrong... you can't integrate the dBc/Hz
values directly. You have to turn them back into linear ratios, do the
interval sum, and then, if you want dBc coming out, take 10*log10(sum).
-- john, KE5FX
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: John Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Help w/integration problem
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:49:19 -0800
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Never mind, I think I see what's wrong... you can't integrate the dBc/Hz
values directly. You have to turn them back into linear ratios, do
Thanks; yes, I've got the sqrt() part already, from both my original source
who requested the feature, and the Zarlink app note.
Naturally, the two sources don't agree. Equation 13 (and others) in the
Maxim app note at http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN3359.pdf says, in
effect:
RMS =
From: John Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Help w/integration problem
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:44:33 -0800
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks; yes, I've got the sqrt() part already, from both my original source
who requested the feature, and the Zarlink app note.
I didn't
Sorry for top posting, but I'm shifting the original topic, and
apologies for a long semi-off topic post.
I found the original post great and respect both of you guys very much.
Tonight, (perhaps some spirits, in the holiday spirit, are influencing
me, but) I thought about this discussion in a
Hi Mike --
I can't speak for John, but I'd sure find that program useful.
73,
John
Mike Feher said the following on 01/02/2006 08:10 AM:
John -
I wrote a program about 20 years ago to calculate the total integrated noise
power from the individual power spectrum density points. It is
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Magnus Danielson writes:
But to answer your question, younger people is still attracted and there is
still plenty of people having the right mind for these things around.
A major difference for these younger people is that the technology
of today is reverse
John -
Do you also need GW Basic? I'll FTP the programs and send the URL shortly.
73 - Mike
Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Ackermann N8UR
Sent: Monday,
Hi Mike --
Actually, I'm most likely to convert it to Perl or Python or something
to run on my Linux boxes. I'll be happy to make the port available to
anyone who wants it (no guarantees when it'll be done, though).
73,
John
Mike Feher said the following on 01/02/2006 09:51 AM:
John -
I figured that is what you would do. As I recall in this program I doubled
the answer to obtain the total double sided noise power. You will see that
in the program, towards the end, and can eliminate the doubling if you only
want the single sided total power over the selected integration limits.
¡Felices fiestas y un próspero año nuevo!
Kind of a bummer of a thread to start a new year. Thought I'd
demonstrate that anything remains possible by contributing a message
that doesn't have anything to do with leap seconds :-)
Poul-Henning Kamp makes a good point:
A major difference for
Greetings,
A friend at work has the following recordings available over the leap
second, and will post them if there's interest.
DCF77 (.de)
WWV, WWVB (.us)
MSF (.uk)
BPM (.ch) This station went to carrier
I have CHU at http://www.febo.com/time-freq/leapsecond-2005 (about
halfway down the page).
John
Warner Losh said the following on 01/02/2006 12:29 PM:
Greetings,
A friend at work has the following recordings available over the leap
second, and will post them if there's interest.
Hi, Mike --
That would indeed be interesting to see... but your file looks like a
compiled (or at least tokenized) binary. Is there an interpreter for
Win2K/XP that will let me list your program, or some other way to get a
plaintext listing?
BTW, I don't know if you saw the note I posted to the
Yes, the magic happends between (11) and (12). The integration is
0 to infinity
and not -infinity to infinity, since we already know it mirrors arround 0.
Mind you that these are twice the power, not twice the amplitude.
The energy at
fc-f will have the same energy and be coherent to the
From: John Miles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Help w/integration problem
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:42:33 -0800
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, the magic happends between (11) and (12). The integration is
0 to infinity
and not -infinity to infinity, since we already know it
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes:
=A1Felices fiestas y un pr=F3spero a=F1o nuevo!
...on the other hand, no black box can be truly opaque and remain
operational. Things, [...] cannot ultimately be
hidden from view. Seeing how they work doesn't have to be
restricted to
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warner Losh writes:
Greetings,
A friend at work has the following recordings available over the leap
second, and will post them if there's interest.
DCF77 (.de)
WWV, WWVB (.us)
MSF (.uk)
BPM (.ch)
I think we're seeing the technology shift to a different level of
abstraction, that's all. If the operating principles of a system built from
components cannot be understood in structural terms (i.e., from
disassembly), then your definition of component is what's insufficient.
You just need to
Can someone point me to the source where theknown fault of the Jupiter
listed below is documented??
I have a bunch of these engines and would like to see this documentation.
Tnx!
73,
Mike, N1JEZ
A closed mouth gathers no feet
- Original Message -
From: Bjorn Gabrielsson [EMAIL
Hello Mike,
Can someone point me to the source where theknown fault of the Jupiter
listed below is documented??
Google has a cached copy of a discussion that I participated in, back in
Feb 2004.
Try this URL, I think it should work:
http://tinyurl.com/c6bfn
It contains the statement from
Magnus -
So far I do not have any problems running any of my basic programs for
myself. The problem comes when I try to share like this time. All the best
in 2006 - Mike
Mike B. Feher
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960
-Original Message-
From: Magnus Danielson
Thanks, Mike. I can work with that.
73,
John
Mike Feher said the following on 01/02/2006 08:26 PM:
The URL below is the source code in Basic for the program that I wrote over
20 years ago. Since I think you both intend to change it to another language
the listing should suffice. I have
At 12:21 PM 1/1/2006 -0500, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
I've wrapped a web page around my data, with photos of the Spectracom
non-event :-) and some other info.
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/leapsecond-2005.
Any chance of getting a few more minutes (say leap-10 to leap+10) of WWVB?
I'm still
I've put the full 2-hour run of WWVB at
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/leapsecond-2005/WWVB-full.mp3 (7MB) and
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/leapsecond-2005/WWVB-ful.wav (115MB).
Feel free to grab 'em (please try the MP3 first and only get the WAV if
the MP3 won't do the job).
John
Scott
John Ackermann N8UR said the following on 01/02/2006 09:43 PM:
I've put the full 2-hour run of WWVB at
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/leapsecond-2005/WWVB-full.mp3 (7MB) and
http://www.febo.com/time-freq/leapsecond-2005/WWVB-ful.wav (115MB).
Sorry about the typo -- the second URL should be
At 09:43 PM 1/2/2006 -0500, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
Feel free to grab 'em (please try the MP3 first and only get the WAV if
the MP3 won't do the job).
Your MP3 worked just fine, even with the dirt simple AM demodulator I'm
futzing with. Got the same results as with the demodulated datastream
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN3359.pdf is the Maxim note I was
referring to.
This HP app note, describing an advanced noise-measurement program for the
8568A, is excellent as well:
http://www.speakeasy.net/~jmiles1/an270-2.pdf
With a graph acquired from the junker 8568A I bought for GPIB
John -
Thanks, good basic stuff. Right now my biggest concern is the amount of
acceptable phase jitter for a given data rate for higher order modulations.
I know that the rule of thumb is not to exceed 10% of the Euclidian distance
between phase points in the constellation, but, how do you obtain
As a data point, I visited MIT last November and headed for selected
spots, some last seen in 1960. The Edgerton Center on the 4th floor
of Building 4 had a class in session doing things with 555 timers and
LEDs. The instructor told me that they have resources for 12 students.
They get 25
Good points Bill. Heck, if I was doing today what I was doing in my early
teens I would be considered a terrorist. I go to LL quite a lot, and a lot
of the newer hires there are MIT grads. At least most of the ones hired at
LL do care, and somewhat understand hardware. Still, until they get at
John Miles says:
I think we're seeing the technology shift to a different level of
abstraction
Yes - this is certainly true of software, for instance. Our team
attended JavaOne this year - along with 15,000 rabid (and much
younger) technophiles. Object oriented programming replaces
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