Hi Alan,
I cant remember the detail now but my converstaion with a BBC engineer at
the NPL meeting a few years back suggested along the lines of yes there
would be a stable frequency available on a digital TV signal but no it would
not be related (tracable) to any given standard because it
Gentlemen,
if anyone of you has the circuit diagram of a 8563A's A14 and A15 circuit
boards available, this would be of great help to a friend of mine. He is
also in search for a 83620A service manual.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
www.ulrich-bangert.de
Ortholzer Weg 1
27243 Gross Ippener
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
Gentlemen,
if anyone of you has the circuit diagram of a 8563A's A14 and A15 circuit
boards available, this would be of great help to a friend of mine. He is
also in search for a 83620A service manual.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
www.ulrich-bangert.de
Ortholzer Weg 1
Christian Vogel wrote:
Hi Alan,
I cant remember the detail now but my converstaion with a BBC engineer at
the NPL meeting a few years back suggested along the lines of yes there
would be a stable frequency available on a digital TV signal but no it
would
not be related (tracable) to any
http://www.artekmedia.com has scans of the 8560E-series schematics, which
may not be too different from the -A suffix if he gets desperate. Also try
hp_agilent_equipment on Yahoo Groups.
-- john, KE5FX
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
You could (temporarily) install a structure that blocks reception in one
direction and then infer the meridian direction from the occultation of
SVs by the obstruction.
However the accuracy of the determination wont be high.
Bruce
Anyway, that's an idea.
Antonio
The
For that you need a Moondial! ;-)
In the old days... Cub Scouts were taught to find a basic direction
from the way moss grew on the south facing (in the Northern Hemesphere
at least) side of trees.
These days, it's easier to tell them to look at Sky TV dish's. (UK
satellite TV service)
Didn't the moss grow on the North facing, cool side?
- Original Message -
From: Dave Baxter d...@uk-ar.co.uk
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] [OT] North
For that you need a Moondial! ;-)
In the old days... Cub Scouts were
Dave,
That may be why there are not so many Cub Scouts any more...
They got lost on the way home.
Didier
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave Baxter
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 6:41 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Check our item 270417502435 on e..y.
Joe
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Ulrich Bangert
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:50 AM
To: Time nuts
Subject: [time-nuts] Help on HP/Agilent 8563E / 83620A needed
Gentlemen,
Hi Rex,
Sounds like a neat application. 100 meters might be a bit long for RS-232.
I was taught that 50 feet is the limit for 9600bps. You may need to use
RS-422 (balanced version of 232), low capacitance cable, or a lower baud
rate. Since you're a ham, you could also do it wirelessly over UHF
One of the group wanted a pinout for the eros funky frequency ocxo.
Unfortunately, I lost the email. Could you email me again? Also, does your
unit have a connector or plain pins? Are there two type SMB connectors?
I have one of each type.
Don
--
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850
alternately you could use a short-haul modem. I've used the ones from
Telebyte running over with good success. you can get up to 115.2 kbps
on ~1km of cable on some of them.
http://www.telebyteusa.com/shorthaulmodem.htm
-eric
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Justin Pinnix
Hal Murray wrote:
stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com said:
Further if at least one cell site has a accurate clock how far could
it be repeated before it lost it's useful accuracy using the CDMA
signal as in :
I think there are two cases.
The first is if the GPS receiver on a single site
With regards to using WWV as a frequency source you need to watch out for
the doppler shift of sky wave signals which can be a few hz or so.
This doccument has some more info re this.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA284610Location=U2doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
- Original Message
EROS is an abbreviation used by the Electronic Research Company. They
used to be in Overland Park, KS, USA. They made OCXOs for government and
space applications. I have some of their 5MHz devices which were widely
used in Transit (pre-GPS) satellite navigation receivers. These OCXOs
were fixed
A little testing shows:
2 AMU = 33 dBc
4 AMU = 36 dBc
5 AMU = 39 dBc
6 AMU = 41 dBc
9 AMU = 45 dBc
12 AMU = 47 dBc
15 AMU = 49 dBc
Numbers are approximate due to shifting values and delays when switching units.
Hi,
I just posted a very nice FTS oscillator on eBay. 320453093813
It's an FTS 9110/120, take a look.
Corby Dawson
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
I was told by a Technical Support Engineer from Symmetricom Global Services
that
The typical life span is ~10 years for these Rubidium Time Bases.
This is in response to my request for information on a Ball/Efratom
PTB-100.
Is this a typical life span of a rubidium standard?
We had a guy
Hi Warren,
that is correct, I care to make best use of the environment I have, not the
one I would like to have (sounds like Rumsfeld, doesn't it?!).
It works now with the AMU changes, and I did change the TC to 500 as well.
I am comparing against my PRS-10 Rubidium (driven by an M12+
In message c23fcf4b010c4b02b74fb84b02195...@escaleno, Marco A. Ferra writes
:
We had a guy from Pendulum Instruments in our Laboratory that stated that
the life span of Rubidium crystals are between 10 ~ 12 years, so the
information seems to be correct. I believe that when the rubidium starts
Said
I know this is not something that you really want to have to fiddle with,
but you may find some of it useful information.
More Default changes you may want to consider are:
With the default Dac Voltage setting of 0 and
the Default Survey setting of DO NOT save position
If the power fails,
Hi Corby,
That IS a nice looking oscillator. Have not seen actual units with
accelerometers before. Do you have more information on the
accelerometer-system? is it a single/dual/triple axis system, what
brand/model of accelerometer?
--
Björn
Hi,
I just posted a very nice FTS oscillator
At 03:24 PM 11/23/2009, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote...
There are no rubidium crystals involved.
Next you'll try and tell us that you can't make a clock run backwards
by using dilithium crystals, and making it warp time.
My understanding is that the Rb gets absorbed into the glass envelope,
so
Mark Sims wrote:
A little testing shows:
2 AMU = 33 dBc
4 AMU = 36 dBc
5 AMU = 39 dBc
6 AMU = 41 dBc
9 AMU = 45 dBc
12 AMU = 47 dBc
15 AMU = 49 dBc
Numbers are approximate due to shifting values and delays when switching units.
A quick play with Gnumerics gave me the formula dBc =
A quick play with Gnumerics gave me the formula dBc = 20*log10(AMU)+25,5
to have the best match, and RMS error of 2,23 where as the dBc = AMU +
33,9 has the RMS error of 4,34.
AMU
Arbitrary Manufacturer Units
Antenna Measurement Units
Arbitrary Mystery Units
See if these help your estimate:
Mark
Great info
Can you also see what 0.0, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.5, 3.0 are equal to.
Those are the important ones when setting the AMU lower.
AND better estimate what the hysteresis is at each setting,
It is about two or three dBc units
ws
***
- Original Message -
From:
They probably dont want the little rascals bumping into one-another and
broadening
the resonance line :-))
Alan G3NYK
- Original Message -
From: Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:10 PM
Rubidium crystals?? Do tell!
-Chuck Harris
Marco A. Ferra wrote:
I was told by a Technical Support Engineer from Symmetricom Global
Services that
The typical life span is ~10 years for these Rubidium Time Bases.
This is in response to my request for information on a Ball/Efratom
PTB-100.
Both the lamp and the absorption cell contain rubidium.
The rubidium in the lamp is slowly absorbed by the glass container.
The rubidim in the absorption cell is mixed with a buffer gas and
presumably has a much lower rate of absorption by the cell walls.
The rubidium lamp becomes unusable due
In message 4b0b0ed6.3080...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes:
This lamp wear out mechanism is avoided if one uses laser interrogation
of the absorption cell.
About that...
Isn't that the sort of experiement we should try to lure Tom into doing ?
There must be a way to create a DIY
How about Arithmetically Meaningless Units?
Didier
--Original Message--
From: Tom Van Baak
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
To: Time-Nuts
ReplyTo: Tom Van Baak
ReplyTo: Time-Nuts
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] AMU vs dBc
Sent: Nov 23, 2009 4:05 PM
A quick play with Gnumerics gave me the
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b0b0ed6.3080...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes:
This lamp wear out mechanism is avoided if one uses laser interrogation
of the absorption cell.
About that...
Isn't that the sort of experiement we should try to lure Tom into doing ?
There
Guys,
Don't get confused with (a) recovering the transmitter's carrier
frequency and (b) recovering the colour burst and/or data stream in a
DVB-T signal for use as a house frequency standard. They're not one
of the same !
Most TV carrier frequencies here in Sydney, Aust (analogue digital -
Hi everybody,
in a document from Trimble
(TTM637VME/TTM357VXI
GPS Satellite Receiver
Addendum, User's Guide)
I found:
The signal level (Byte 5) is a linear approximation of C/N0 which is stated in
antenna amplitude
measurement units (AMUs), a Trimble devised unit. An approximate correlation
Hi Kit,
there is an easy way out:
Use a Philips Video Decoder (SAA7113 or similar), it will generate a locked
27MHz output reference pixel clock from the video stream coming out of the
STB.
Unfortunately most $49 STB's don't do proper PCR synchronization via PLL,
they just do dropped
We've secretly replaced the Rubidium Crystals in this physics lab
break-room with Folger's Crystals -- let's see if anyone can tell the
difference!
(No need to get violent, I'll go quietly...) ;-)
Bruce Lane, Owner Head Hardware Heavy,
Blue Feather Technologies
I'll admit - I chuckled. I guess we're all showing our age if we
remember that commercial.
Joe Gray
KA5ZEC
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Bruce Lane kyr...@bluefeathertech.com wrote:
We've secretly replaced the Rubidium Crystals in this physics lab
break-room with Folger's Crystals --
WarrenS wrote:
Some of the disagreement has to do with the fact that Two similar topics, each
with a different answer are being mixed together here.
Magnus's point:
1) How to make the Tbolt the best that it can be?
Answer: Start with a good strong signal and a quiet environment.
Actually,
Bruce Lane wrote:
We've secretly replaced the Rubidium Crystals in this physics lab
break-room with Folger's Crystals -- let's see if anyone can tell the
difference!
(No need to get violent, I'll go quietly...) ;-)
I'll badly need some caesium-crystals in my cup of java after
Hi Warren, et. al,
here is a plot (about 20hrs long) of my PRS-10 (driven by a M12+) compared
against my Thunderbolt both running from the same antenna feed. Comparison
done on the 10MHz outputs, at maximum sample rate on my 5370B counter. Both
units have been running for 6+ months now,
HI All;
Did I see on a post recently that there is a document for the T-Bolt Monitor
program? Or was that just a figment of my imagination?
Please advise/
Rich
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time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Alas, there is no way to get a direct conversion between AMU and dBc. What
you have to do is display the signal levels in dBc and then switch the unit to
AMU. It takes it a couple of seconds before it switches. By then the signal
levels have changed, so that the data is only approximate.
Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4b0b0ed6.3080...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes:
This lamp wear out mechanism is avoided if one uses laser interrogation
of the absorption cell.
About that...
Isn't that the sort of experiement we should try to lure Tom into
I might indeed believe the glass absorbs it. That might have been what I had
seen when trying to repair some of the lpro type rbs.
Thanks
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote:
At 03:24 PM 11/23/2009, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote...
There are no rubidium crystals
Kit,
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Kit Scally ksca...@bytecan.com.au wrote:
Guys,
Don't get confused with (a) recovering the transmitter's carrier
frequency and (b) recovering the colour burst and/or data stream in a
DVB-T signal for use as a house frequency standard. They're not one
I hate that in google mail you can't use the tab key
Lets try again.
Thanks for the response. As a broadcast engineer I am familiar with the
realities of the signals.
Indeed you are right they get moused up pretty well. Just figure after I
nail down a few projects I may dig into see what might be
Compare 2 each T'Bolts with V3.0 Firmware, all on a common antenna
Set one to read AMU's, set the other to read dBc.
May make a reasonable comparison.
Probably would be best to compare with both set to AMU readings,
then both set for dBc readings, to be sure there is some close agreement.
Then
Hello Time-nuts,
This could be opening up a can of worms - but here goes.
I need some help/direction with programming my 5370B over GPIB. I have NI
GPIB-ENET/100 and have install NI's Measurement and Automation software.
All is good, the software sees the instrument and I can issue
Said
Not bad at around + - 15 ns Peak over a day,
IF I got the scaling right it is about 2 hrs division
AND there are around 3 hr cycles (10k sec) in the phase (along with lots of
other stuff)
If it is the Tbolt which is likely, then it is due to some of the other things
I warned about
Hello Time-nuts,
Now the tricky part. I would like to write a program that collects TI
values to feed to TVB's ADEV program. First I should ask - is
there one out
there that someone is willing to share?
I have been working on one -- it's still under construction but reasonably
useful
The Tbolt can get down to the 3 ns RMS range with care and luck.
- over approx what time frame was that RMS average taken?
- what frequency reference did you compare against?
/tvb
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Standard deviation is 7.6ns, and the mean is 1.5ns. Peak to
Peak is ~ -15ns to +19ns.
I was hoping for slightly better. Not sure who is the better of
the two (yet).
Bye,
Said
Remember the phase plot that you made is the combined phase
wander of both GPSDO: the PRS10/M12 and the TBolt. It
Hi Tom,
in progress now PRS-10 against a FireFly-IIA...
The PRS-10 is set to a very long time-constant, more than 8 hours if I
remember correctly.. The Thunderbolt is set to 500s TC.
bye,
Said
In a message dated 11/23/2009 20:58:02 Pacific Standard Time,
t...@leapsecond.com writes:
Hi Warren,
checking the PRS-10 against a FireFly-IIA now, and later this month against
a Fury GPSDO.
That should clarify which unit has the best performance in my setup,
including temperature cycling, the antenna/splitter challenge, etc.. I suspect
the PRS-10 with an 8+ hour TC is going
/tvb
- over approx what time frame was that RMS average taken?
a day or so, or forever? if nothing disturbs anything.
- what frequency reference did you compare against?
GPS, For the most part Using Lady heather plots.
Which is Just comparing it to the filtered GPS, and does not take into
I just completed a 4 hour run with a Tbolt pimped out with the optimized AMU
(1.0), elevation mask (25 deg), DAC gain (3.458 Hz/V), TC (500 sec), and
damping (1.2 ... could be better) settings along with the active temperature
control. And I wasn't using the fancy pants Sunday go-to-meetin'
Hi Tom,
in progress now PRS-10 against a FireFly-IIA...
The PRS-10 is set to a very long time-constant, more than
8 hours if I remember correctly.. The Thunderbolt is set to
500s TC.
That could be part of the problem. 8 hours seems really long
to me for a PRS10. I mean, it would not surprise
Said
I'd sure guess a good disciplined rubidium should win over the Tbolt.
But if the Tbolt does not come in a close second,
Give me another chance to change some of your other default setting.
It would be interesting to see what the ADEV plot looks like using Ulrich's
plotter program. .
OR
Tom said
I'd worry some about a TC that's too long. There's also the issue
of the correct damping factor to match the TC you use.
Too true, this started out to be just an antenna feed issue.
and it sounded like Said wanted to keep it simple.
I did not know this was going to be a Phase face
I just completed a 4 hour run with a Tbolt pimped out with the optimized AMU
(1.0), elevation mask (25 deg), DAC gain
(3.458 Hz/V), TC (500 sec), and damping (1.2 ... could be better) settings
along with the active temperature control.
And I wasn't using the fancy pants Sunday go-to-meetin'
Magnus said
Actually, that was not my point.
Yea I know, but I hoped it was close enough to what we do agree on.
My point was that the signal levels is lower than what is the normally
recommended level and worse performance may be expected otherwise.
That is a good example of speculations
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