Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread John Howell
It's gone now (checked 10:35 Hrs GMT 01-01-2012) S'pose clocks that used the code will be discarded or the owners will discover how good or bad the built-in quartz osc. is. Happy New Year to all, John H. On 1 Jan 2012, at 00:23, Alan Melia wrote: > Probably when the hung over teckies get bac

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Marco IK1ODO
At 10:47 01/01/2012, you wrote: It's gone now (checked 10:35 Hrs GMT 01-01-2012) S'pose clocks that used the code will be discarded or the owners will discover how good or bad the built-in quartz osc. is. Happy New Year to all, John H. Never saw a clock controlled by HBG, only by DCF. Must

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Tom Harris
I too have been mulling over a minimal GPSDO. Has anyone mentioned a PWM DAC? Even a "toy" microcontroller like the Atmel AVRs can generate 16 bit resolution PWM, which sounds like it would be heaps. As long as the voltage reference is low noise, it does not matter if it drifts slowly, since the c

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Azelio Boriani
Yes, the HBG has gone... I wasn't able to record the last transmission. If I suspected that the shutdown was casual I'd have written an audio time lapse with amplitude trigger to let my PC record overnight. My Wandel&Goltermann SPM-3 with the 1500Hz IF output is great at this task, but I was sleepi

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Kasper Pedersen
On 01/01/2012 12:23 PM, Tom Harris wrote: > I too have been mulling over a minimal GPSDO. > > Has anyone mentioned a PWM DAC? Even a "toy" microcontroller like the > Atmel AVRs can generate 16 bit resolution PWM, which sounds like it .. > So a minimal GPSDO looks like a simple microcontroller (

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Pieter-Tjerk de Boer
I did manage to make a recording of HBG's shutdown this morning. It was at 07:00:13.2 UTC. Why precisely then, I don't know... HNY, Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 01:24:09PM +0100, Azelio Boriani wrote: > Yes, the HBG has gone... I wasn't able to record the last transmission. If

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:23:48 +0100 Marco IK1ODO wrote: > Never saw a clock controlled by HBG, only by DCF. Must ask some Swiss friend. I live in switzerland, but have never seen a HBG controlled clock either. Probably there was only "professional" equipment, but even that i've never seen.

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread John Howell
I know someone who has one, I'll try and get details. John H. On 1 Jan 2012, at 15:11, Attila Kinali wrote: > On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:23:48 +0100 > Marco IK1ODO wrote: > >> Never saw a clock controlled by HBG, only by DCF. Must ask some Swiss friend. > > I live in switzerland, but have never

[time-nuts] HBG clocks

2012-01-01 Thread Murray Greenman
Marco, I have had an HBG-controlled clock for some years. Not that it ever received HBG at this range! The clock is an 'Irox HB13P' projection clock, and has the logo 'Official Swiss Time' on the front, which you can clearly see at http://www.irox.com/Web/en/Products/Archive/HB13P.htm. The us

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Any real world capacitor will have a dielecric with an associated insulation resistance. It's a "more money gets better performance" sort of thing, but there are indeed limits. A 1000 uF cap that has a "good" insulation resistance number might cost you more than some new cars…. No free lunc

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Alan Melia
What do Swiss parking meters use then ?? Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "Attila Kinali" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting... > On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:23:48 +0100 > Ma

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt?

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The drums and boxes are sold off to scrap guys in bulk lots. The auction process is more or less "how much for 10 tons of scrap". I'm sure that you can get on the bidder list if you can handle that sort of quantity of scrap. Best guess is that it goes for under a dollar a pound. Of course 20

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Actually a minimalist GPSDO *could* be a person looking at a scope and tweaking a pot every so often. It all depends on what the desired result is (how accurate / how automated / how failure resistant). Is simplicity measured by low cost, low parts count, easy to find parts, or easy to work

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Philip Pemberton
On 01/01/12 14:06, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer wrote: > > I did manage to make a recording of HBG's shutdown this morning. > It was at 07:00:13.2 UTC. > Why precisely then, I don't know... "Frank, what time is it?" "'Bout 7AM." "Weren't we supposed to shut down the transmitter around midnight?" "."

Re: [time-nuts] HBG clocks

2012-01-01 Thread Marco IK1ODO
At 18:20 01/01/2012, you wrote: Marco, I have had an HBG-controlled clock for some years. Hi Murray, thanks for info - never saw it ! 73, Marco IK1ODO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cg

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread David
Jim Williams did this in one of his designs for measuring low frequency reference noise. The large value low leakage wet tantalum capacitor he used was like $400 and it took 24 hours for the dielectric absorption to settle: http://www.linear.com/docs/28585 You can get the necessary time constant

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Don Latham
Aren't there op-amp circuits that create a large capacitance? The gyrator? Don David > Jim Williams did this in one of his designs for measuring low > frequency reference noise. The large value low leakage wet tantalum > capacitor he used was like $400 and it took 24 hours for the > dielectric ab

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Don Latham
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-capmult.html I did not take the time to analyze... Don David > Jim Williams did this in one of his designs for measuring low > frequency reference noise. The large value low leakage wet tantalum > capacitor he used was like $400 and it took 24 hours for the > diel

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread WarrenS
Hal posted: > For those who aren't familiar with this trick, it's easy to make a low pass > filter in software: > X = X*(1-k) + k*new orX = X - k*X + k*new OR Gives exact same results using only one multiply, New_X = Last_X + k * (New_data - Last_X) OR For powers of square root of tw

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Achim Vollhardt
No HBG clock but a HBG-disciplined OCXO in our lab.. we forgot to change the receiver to DCF77 but will have to do that on Tuesday, when business restarts :) Achim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.feb

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread David
Gyrators are usually used to create impractical inductances or frequency dependant negative resistances but I suppose you could. I do not think you would gain anything though since you would be trading one set of non-ideal behaviors for a different set. This is especially the case since the non-i

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi For some designs (like a Rb) the time constant may be in the "days" range…. Even for something simple, you can easily get out to several thousand seconds. You also need low noise past the cutoff time (for short times the cap may help you). That's going to get you into resistor noise and / o

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The answer is (as always) "no free lunch". An op amp simulating a capacitor is always going to be performance limited. Different limitations come in with different circuits, but they all suffer from noise / drift / leakage. Put another way - for a long time constant, you are just as good off

Re: [time-nuts] eBay Ublox

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I haven't used that particular unit. I have played with similar units. That's pretty old stuff, and does not appear to have timing software in it. I suspect you would do *much* better (both performance and price wise) with something newer. Bob On Dec 31, 2011, at 7:41 PM, wrote: > UBL

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Tom Harris
Kasper, I like your style! Small ROM = no inessential features! I shall be studying this code, getting capture working with no capture hardware is a real pain. On 2 January 2012 00:53, Kasper Pedersen wrote: > On 01/01/2012 12:23 PM, Tom Harris wrote: > >> I too have been mulling over a minimal

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt?

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi >From what I can see the basic TBolt is still selling as a buy it now item for >roughly $120 to $130 delivered the US. Sometimes you get the power splitter >with it (for a couple of bucks) / sometimes not. That's the same price they >were 18 months ago. Indeed the guys who had them cheap a y

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi If you do a quick Google search for "insulation resistance" you get to: http://www.electrocube.com/support/insulation_resistance.asp or a bunch of similar information. The capacitor it's self (no external resistance at all) has a time constant between it's capacitance and internal leakage.

[time-nuts] eBay Ublox

2012-01-01 Thread lstoskopf
Thanks for comment. At that price figured he had a bunch or they lacked in utility. Did buy one to play with the PPS. Thanks, N0UU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/t

Re: [time-nuts] HBG keeps transmitting...

2012-01-01 Thread Azelio Boriani
Pieter, please, would you be so kind as to share, for example, the last 60 seconds file? Thank you On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Achim Vollhardt wrote: > No HBG clock but a HBG-disciplined OCXO in our lab.. we forgot to change > the receiver to DCF77 but will have to do that on Tuesday, when b

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread WarrenS
Here is another analog control example based on the quick and dirty example below. It is a simple and Very poor GPSDO Rb design as far as noise jitter goes because of the nonlinear and high Phase detector gain, and high 1e-8 noise jitter on the PPS, but still no problem to do with cheap bas

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

2012-01-01 Thread Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
My FE-5680A and Thunderbolt have been well behaved for the last 16 hours. The Thunderbolt is using 3.00 FW and had its feedback settings optimized by Lady Heather. AMU mask is 7.0. No adjustments were made to the Rb during this run. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.

Re: [time-nuts] Used Rb Operating Lifetime

2012-01-01 Thread Magnus Danielson
David, On 12/31/2011 08:30 PM, David wrote: I agree that they are an amazing value but what kind of operating lifetime do the Rb tubes have? SRS has this to say: Historically, the lifetime of rubidium frequency standards has been dominated by rubidium depletion in the discharge lamp. To avoid

[time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Jim Palfreyman
Hi folks, Ignoring the travesty of a lyric change on John Lennon's classic song, did anyone check to see if the clock countdown in Times Square was actually accurate? In times gone past countdowns have been notoriously off (worst I saw was a tv personality using his own watch and it was 25 second

Re: [time-nuts] Used Rb Operating Lifetime

2012-01-01 Thread gary
This is an interesting observation regarding the Icom radio that can be run from one master reference. I would assume any radio which has a high accuracy option has this feature. Looking at the block diagram of the R-8500, this appears to be an option. For the R-7100, it looks like it uses one

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread shalimr9
I think he was mostly ticked off because he came to work 5 minutes early... Didier KO4BB Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -Original Message- From: Jim Palfreyman Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 12:46:30 To: Discussion of precis

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread J. Forster
To me the ball drop/fireworks was different from the on-screen time on FOX by a few secnds. -John =h > Hi folks, > > Ignoring the travesty of a lyric change on John Lennon's classic song, did > anyone check to see if the clock countdown in Times Square was actually > accurate? > > In

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread gary
But TV goes through a lot of buffering these days. I wouldn't expect it to be too accurate. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions ther

Re: [time-nuts] Used Rb Operating Lifetime

2012-01-01 Thread David
I think even my old Icom 706 would work that way. It has the high stability option installed. From what I remember from the service manual, every mixer has its local oscillator frequency locked to the master oscillator through either a PLL or DDS which makes passband shifting via the IF frequenci

[time-nuts] Rigol DS1102E down to $400

2012-01-01 Thread Hal Murray
A while ago, Rigol dropped the price of their 100 MHz 2 channel scope to be the same as their 50 MHz version. That was low enough for me. Since then, they dropped the 50 MHz version to $330. http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000e/ I'm happy. It comes with USB and ser

Re: [time-nuts] Used Rb Operating Lifetime

2012-01-01 Thread gary
This is just a tweak of the older two antenna scheme. Basically it gets rid of the bidirectional nature of the two antenna version. http://www.homingin.com/newdopant.html Signals that are heavily modulated such as trunking control channels don't work well with such schemes. [That part of the e

Re: [time-nuts] Rigol DS1102E down to $400

2012-01-01 Thread gary
I bought the D version (the one with the logic probe) about a week before they slashed the price on the E version. When the upgrade was small for the logic probe version, it wasn't that much of a decision. When they slashed the price of the E version, the D version is now sold at much more of a

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Bob Betts
Yup, whoever is wearing the wrist watch is the person with the right time ... bugs the heck out of me, too. I think it's that "pride in ownership" syndrome; like Chevys are better than Fords, etc, etc.   In my (sort of) normal life, I am never more than a few feet away from a WWVB or GPS receive

Re: [time-nuts] Doppler Design

2012-01-01 Thread David
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 18:35:13 -0800, gary wrote: >This is just a tweak of the older two antenna scheme. Basically it gets >rid of the bidirectional nature of the two antenna version. >> http://www.homingin.com/newdopant.html Joe has a picture of me on his site if you know where to look. :) >Sig

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Peter Gottlieb
You expect *anything* to be accurate on Fox? :-D I recently read an article about how the new "thing" is to have ever larger wrist watches. Some new ones are 2.5 inches diameter. Seems like an opportunity to me, get something on your wrist that has some real serious accuracy. What would be

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Bruce Lane
ime-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. > >__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 6759 (20120101) __ > >The messa

[time-nuts] Rigol DS1102E down to $400

2012-01-01 Thread lstoskopf
There is a software hack to disable the lowpass filter in the units to turn the 50 MHz one into a 100 MHz one. Apparently no difference in hardware. The procedure is one the WEB. I bought one of these at Hamvention and have been pleased. No, I haven't taken the time to do the hack. N0UU __

Re: [time-nuts] Doppler Design

2012-01-01 Thread gary
An interesting comparison of technique. It skips right past simple interferometers and goes into correlative interferometry. Since the XY scheme requires triangulation, it is probably not considered useful, or they just go right into scheme without ambiguity. http://www.denisowski.org/Articles/

Re: [time-nuts] Rigol DS1102E down to $400

2012-01-01 Thread David
On Sun, 01 Jan 2012 18:30:24 -0800, Hal Murray wrote: >A while ago, Rigol dropped the price of their 100 MHz 2 channel scope to be >the same as their 50 MHz version. That was low enough for me. Since then, >they dropped the 50 MHz version to $330. > http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-os

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread J. Forster
I go the other way. Except for eBay, knowing the time w/in 15 minutes or so suits me just fine. I neither wear a watch, nor carry a cell phone any more. -John > You expect *anything* to be accurate on Fox? :-D > > I recently read an article about how the new "thing" is to have

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 01/02/2012 03:16 AM, gary wrote: But TV goes through a lot of buffering these days. I wouldn't expect it to be too accurate. You need to recall that temporal compression of MPEG2/MPEG4 requires time to buffer up and rebuild. You could even have at least two such link, one from the OB-bus t

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread David I. Emery
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 05:54:46PM -0800, J. Forster wrote: > To me the ball drop/fireworks was different from the on-screen time on FOX > by a few secnds. I was watching the media pool HD satellite feed on AMC-1 and through a broadcast grade IRD (ex PBS Bitlink ) it appeared to be about 2

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread J. Forster
I was referencing anything to an external, local reference. My comment was the time difference between the FOX on screen timing and the ball dropping fireworks. Presumably, the on-screen timing was inserted at their local control center in NYC, not after satellite hops. -John > On

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 01/02/2012 06:09 AM, David I. Emery wrote: On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 05:54:46PM -0800, J. Forster wrote: To me the ball drop/fireworks was different from the on-screen time on FOX by a few secnds. I was watching the media pool HD satellite feed on AMC-1 and through a broadcast grade I

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Richard W. Solomon
You can't even get two TV's in the same house in sync with Dish Network !! The smaller TV in the kitchen gets the feed about a second before the big set in the living room !! Must be all that delay in the cheap coax they use !! 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- >From: "J. Forster"

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread David
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 06:20:36 +0100, Magnus Danielson wrote: >On 01/02/2012 06:09 AM, David I. Emery wrote: >> On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 05:54:46PM -0800, J. Forster wrote: >>> To me the ball drop/fireworks was different from the on-screen time on FOX >>> by a few secnds. >> >> I was watching t

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread David I. Emery
On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 09:14:03PM -0800, J. Forster wrote: > I was referencing anything to an external, local reference. My comment was > the time difference between the FOX on screen timing and the ball dropping > fireworks. Presumably, the on-screen timing was inserted at their local > control c

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread J. Forster
Could well be. The ball-drop guys could have been off too. I've no idea who or why any were off. And it really doesn't matter much. In all probability, nobody other than a real time nut cares anyway. -John > On Sun, Jan 01, 2012 at 09:14:03PM -0800, J. Forster wrote: >> I was refer

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread David
This sounds like a perfect application for applying antenna wax to coaxial cable. On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 22:33:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00), "Richard W. Solomon" wrote: >You can't even get two TV's in the same house in sync with Dish Network !! > >The smaller TV in the kitchen gets the feed about a second

Re: [time-nuts] US New Year countdown - accurate?

2012-01-01 Thread Jim Palfreyman
A long shot, but was any time-nut actually in the square? On Monday, 2 January 2012, David wrote: > This sounds like a perfect application for applying antenna wax to > coaxial cable. > > On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 22:33:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00), "Richard W. Solomon" > wrote: > >>You can't even get two TV's

Re: [time-nuts] Rigol DS1102E down to $400

2012-01-01 Thread Hal Murray
davidwh...@gmail.com said: > Doesn't the Rigol have delayed sweep or is it zoom only? It has a delayed sweep. You can delay long enough so that the trigger event is not in the buffer. After you capture a buffer, you can zoom and pan around in it. If the sweep is 20 ms/div or faster, the scre