The ideal hobby use pick and place machine would be very different
from a commercial machine. Lets say I want one board made. What I
want to minimize is my time. With a conventional machine by FAR most
of my time is spent setting the machine up. In fact setup is so slow
that for smaller PCBs I
I have seen pick and place systems built around CNC machines (same applies to
3D printers). The reel strips are fed through a slotted guide. The pickup
head has a finger (or some use the pickup nozzle... a flat tipped hypodermic
needle) that is used to advance the reel. It drops down into th
The problem is editing out all of the redundant material. It's tedious
by hand.
Anyone got a program to do that? Say, in perl . . .
Bill Hawkins
-Original Message-
From: John Ackermann N8UR
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 1:36 PM
You know, this thread has had a tremendous amount of practica
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 13:59:58 -0500
"Graham / KE9H" wrote:
> Lots of problems to be solved...
Most of these problems are easy:
> How do you take loose parts or cut tape or tape reels
You don't. No loose parts with any kind of pick&place machine.
As for cut tape, these can be taped on an empty
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:41:05 -0500
Oz-in-DFW wrote:
> On 6/24/2016 8:23 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> > The advantage of "professional"
> > companies like Alktech over "hobbyist" companies like macrofab is,
> > that you get full professional support while the price does not differ much.
> > E.g. wh
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Don Latham wrote:
> I do not see why a small pick and place assist system could not be built on a
> 3-d printer.
You are not the first to think of this. But the problem is
1) moving the reels of parts,
2) programming the machine. Translating the PCB design
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>
> The trick is to use semi-manual pick&place machines for low volumes.
> Ie machines that you do not program, but guide by hand. This allows
> faster and more accurate placing of components than would be possible
> with a pure manual process
I've done a over one hundred boards with a Kapton stencil without any problems
(0603 size parts) and 50 boards with a stencil cut out of vellum paper (a
plasticized paper available at craft stores, red cuts very well with 405nm
lasers) by my home-made laser cutter head for a desktop CNC mill
Hi
A “low cost” auto pick and place does have some things in common with a 3D
printer:
Drive is by stepper motors
Micro stepping stepper motor drivers are used
Belt drive is pretty common
Tube support and circular ball bearings are generally used
You have X, Y and Z drive
Very custom software to
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:01:24 +0100, you wrote:
>...
>
>I definitely concur with the 'make it SMT as much as possible' plan -
>pin-mount stuff is a pain. Also, QFN is far preferable to QFP, as
>catalogue suppliers don't always manage to ship fine-pitch stuff
>without bending legs in one direction o
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 6:28 PM, Jay Grizzard
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:28:00PM +, Mark Sims wrote:
>> A usable re-flow oven can be had for $300.
>
> Do you (or anyone) have suggestions for usable reflow ovens in this price
> range?
I sell a reflow oven conversion kit on Tind
On 24 June 2016 at 14:23, Attila Kinali wrote:
> Unlike what most people seem to think, small batches of PCBs have always
> been a business for some assembly companies.
For my sins, I am one of those... (Cambridge, UK).
Yes - semi-manual assembly is the way it goes, especially for the
active par
Don Latham said
to Discussion
I do not see why a small pick and place assist system could not be built on
a 3-d printer.
Lots of problems to be solved...
How do you take loose parts or cut tape or tape reels and get the right
part out, and into the chuck, oriented in the right direction?
How man
You know, this thread has had a tremendous amount of practical information,
with actual URLs, etc. Would someone be willing to consolidate the info on a
web page somewhere?
> On Jun 24, 2016, at 9:56 AM, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>
> On 6/23/2016 10:53 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>>> Am I missing some
Hi
If you are doing a board with a few hundred parts on it (as earlier mentioned).
And have designed
a “3D printer” pick and place that runs one reel at a time. And are running the
printer slow to keep
everything from going all over the place. And have a manual reel advance (no
feeder) ….
I c
Interesting product.
Mitch W4OA
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/review-ec-placer-makes-placing-smd-components-a-piece-of-cake
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On 6/24/2016 8:23 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:28:15 + (UTC)
> Bob Stewart wrote:
Lotsa stuff deleted
>> One more related question before this topic dies, if you don't mind.
>> What about the other side of building: stuffing the boards. My GPSDOs
>> have about 120 parts p
On 6/24/2016 9:32 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:16:34 -0500
> Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>> Solder stencils make **all** the difference.
> Oh, yes! Please, do not try syringe dispensers! These fail more often than
> they work. Also pay the additional couple of bucks to get a steel stenci
Hi:
For IC pitches of 0.050" (1.27mm) hand soldering works fine, even for my vision
when a stereo microscope is used.
Elmer's glue to hold the chips is place.
Getting boards from ExpressPCB that have solder mask helps to prevent bridging.
Here is an example:
http://www.prc68.com/I/BTSG.shtml
I do not see why a small pick and place assist system could not be built on a
3-d printer.
Don
> On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:16:34 -0500
> Oz-in-DFW wrote:
>
>> 1. Pick and place machines use a lot of floor space (even for the
>>"small" one
On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:16:34 -0500
Oz-in-DFW wrote:
> 1. Pick and place machines use a lot of floor space (even for the
> "small" ones are more than 1/2 a bench.)
> 2. Even the best ones require pretty continuous tuning. If you aren't
> using them continuously each new run is a new and
On 6/23/2016 9:36 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
> Hi
>
> The gotcha with “really slow” is that once you print the solder paste on the
> board, it has a very
> limited “open air” life. If you don’t get the board done fairly quickly, your
> soldering quality can
> suffer quite a bit.
>
> Bob
>
For most of t
On 6/23/2016 10:53 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Am I missing some obvious cheapie oven without these types of problems?
>
> A lot of people are building them from Black and Decker (and the like)
> toaster ovens. Use Arduino for controller or just eyeballs. oven
> thermometer and wrist watch.I
On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:28:15 + (UTC)
Bob Stewart wrote:
> One more related question before this topic dies, if you don't mind.
> What about the other side of building: stuffing the boards. My GPSDOs
> have about 120 parts per board, plus some custom work on the SMA connectors.
> Is there a s
Take a look at the oven at http://whizoo.com/buy . They sell several kits as
well as a complete kit to modify a toaster oven, and a ready-to-go oven for
$699, shipping included. According to the web site, it uses a B&D model
T01303SB toaster oven, capable of handling an 8"x10.5" board.
The oven
I’ve been doing SMT assembly for 40 years. I have never ever seen anybody with
a process
that “just worked”. They all involve some amount of fine tuning and design
optimization.
Hi,
Yep, The amount of tweaking required to get a good board build can be
extensive. Part density, ground plane,
Disclaimer: I've not used any of these yet. New style assembly houses
are MUCH cheaper than traditional proto shops. The ones I'm planning on
trying are:
Macrofab (Houston) https://macrofab.com/
pcb:ng http://pcb.ng/index.html (currently in beta with **deep**
discounts. $1/sq in + BoM cost
For those of you that have one of these... good-ish news. I have Lady Heather
working with them (well, at least the Trimble works, the Symmetricoms have not
arrived yet and there are a couple of known differences in their commands).
I'll get the code out there when I have a chance to test it
I've given thought to stencils, but without building something to prop my hands
on, I'll smear the paste. So, I place up to 10 or 15 parts at a time and use
the hot-air gun. To each his own, I guess.
Bob
---
GFS G
kb...@n1k.org said:
> Iâve been doing SMT assembly for 40 years. I have never ever seen anybody
> with a process that âjust workedâ. They all involve some amount of fine
> tuning and design optimization.
As an example... I remember supplying dead chips to the fab house so they
could cal
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