Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Analyzer on Ebay

Hi there, sorry guys, one small mistake: the unit has an external 10MHz very stable time base output and input, not 100MHz. Their older DTS series used to have 100MHz outputs. bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] Oscillator Analyzer on Ebay

Hi Magnus, Yes, I did see some other units on Ebay recently, except those will only work controlled by the GPIB input, they are configured to be used remotely inside test equipment, and they seem to be untested. My unit has been decrypted if you will - it runs as a standard Windows PC,

[time-nuts] Oscillator Analyzer on Ebay

Hello Fellow time nuts, I thought this might be of interest to some of you, if not please accept my apologies: I have a Wavecrest high-end SRT-3000 Jitter/Phase-Noise/PLL/BERT analyzers for sale that I got from Credence as surplus, and I am listing it on Ebay tomorrow morning. The

Re: [time-nuts] Features of a Precision Clock?

Hi guys, power grids are very large, consider for example the continental US or Europe, grids can probably extend 1000km's easily. At the speed of light, that's 3ms transition time! Electric current travels much slower than that so the time for a wave to propagate from Berlin to

Re: [time-nuts] On some pitfalls of the dual mixer time differencemethod of h...

Hello Ulrich, the latest generation of TSC intruments (the TSC5120A for example) uses a new strategy: they use four ADC's to sample and cross-correlate two oscillators completely in software. All the mixing etc is done in the software domain. That makes for cheap hardware, and works quite

Re: [time-nuts] M12M Receiver Stability

Hi Randy, thanks for the feedback. Would you have a suggestion for this foam, that's RoHS and especially UL approved? Also, when will Synergy start shipping M12M's? thanks again, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] M12M Receiver Stability

Thanks Randy! Bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] M12M Receiver Disiplining PRS10

Hi there Lee, I am doing that right now. Attached see an ADEV plot of the PRS10 disciplined by an M12+. My experience is that: 1) the PRS10 unit I have generates a 1PPS output which is about 35-40ns too early on average when compared to the 1PPS input from the GPS. I think this

Re: [time-nuts] M12M Receiver Disiplining PRS10

Hi Lee, sorry, forgot to mention, I used both an M12+ and an M12M to do this, no big difference between the two receivers. The M12M has better short term stability (less thermal sensitivity) which doesen't matter with a 7 hour averaging, and better RF sensitivity. bye, Said

Re: [time-nuts] M12M Receiver Disiplining PRS10

Hi Lee, no, I havent seen it jump like that. Loran is pretty innaccurate, I think you will be pleased with the improvement you can get from the M12M. They are just great little buggers. Just make sure to turn the M12M TRAIM on, and set the limit to 100ns or so (it's 1000ns by default I

Re: [time-nuts] distribution amplifier

Hi Ulrich, I think the noisy amp was the Max4017, but I have to check. Great job on the Plotter update! Can't stress how helpfull that tool is. Thanks, bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] Plotter

Hi Ulrich, I use an older laptop with 1024 x 768 resolution :) Thanks, bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Plotter

Hi Ulrich, increadable! You are posting these versions faster than I can test them :) Great stuff! BTW: is there any chance the windwow could open on the upper left hand corner of the screen (mine always opens 1/2 way off the screen to the lower right, even on different computers with

Re: [time-nuts] Plotter

Thanks Ulrich!!! Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] How do I know my GPS stabilized oscillatorisworking?

Hello Ulrich, thanks much for your detailed response! I will need to take time to read it. There is one more issue I ran into on the older version (will get the new one now): I have integer numbers in some of my data captures, and the unit only reads in data that has a decimal point (such

Re: [time-nuts] How do I know my GPS stabilized oscillatoris working?

Hi Ulrich, I've been using your plotter tool for a while now, and Congrats! It's quite good, I was very impressed. It's a wonderfull tool. Here are some suggestions that came out of every-day real life experience, and may help to make it even better: * It would be good to have the

Re: [time-nuts] How do I know my GPS stabilized oscillatoris working?

Hi Ulrich, two items I forgot: * It would be nice if the tool remembers the last dataset file (and maybe even auto-loads it if selected), and the last settings preferences. These get lost now. * A pointer to your website would be great somewhere in the tool to get updates

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency Dividers

In a message dated 8/8/2006 17:21:56 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Said, I understand that the micros work fine, it just seemed like you would need a second one to discipline the OCXO because of the timing constraints on the divider. Hi Randy, on our new GPSDO's

Re: [time-nuts] GPS SPD field

Hi Randy, I have seen at least one GPS (Panasonic) that sends 5 digitis after the decimal point for position in NMEA, and at least one commercial navigation program for PDA's that cannot handle 5 digits! They hard-coded the parsing routine to be stupid enough to always expect 4 digits,

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency Dividers

Hi Randy, I guess they like the intellectual challenge of tweaking PIC bits :) There is what I think may be a better way to generate the 1PPS: you can use an Arm micro such as the Philips LPC2102 series to generate a 1PPS output with 16.7ns settability: these micros have counter/timers

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency Dividers

In a message dated 8/8/2006 14:29:38 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Randy, the Micro's allow you to do other stuff, like discipline the OCXO as well :) BTW: I took a closer look at the Sparkfun board, the chip has a bunch more Match outputs than I thought. The

Re: [time-nuts] GPS SPD field

In a message dated 8/8/2006 14:23:31 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Randy, if I remember right, the fourth digit is about 18cm in resolution? Yeah, let's get 1.8cm resolution on the fifth digit! bye, Said Said, Yeah, I meant to mention that. You really just need

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 24, Issue 47

Hello Faisal, a small annecdote about GPS jamming from the design of our FireFox GPS Disciplined synthesizers: We have a broadband synthesizer driven by a GPSDO on the same PCB. This synthesizer would completely swamp out the GPS receiption if you set it to 1574MHz CW output, the

Re: [time-nuts] Quick Allan deviation measures

Hello Normand, The information I got from someone on this list testing our FireFox GPS Disciplined Synthesizer with an M12M prototype against his Masor was that they are essentially identical in timing performance to the M12+. Our own measurements show that they are more RF sensitive, lock

Re: [time-nuts] New frequency standard, Mercury better than Cesium?

Hi Chuck, yes, all test equipment is excempt from RoHS, until between 2009 - 2011. Europe is not sure how long they will keep this exemption in effect. There are so many legacy products that are vital to the industry and that will not be re-designed that I think the exemptions will

Re: [time-nuts] Latitude and longitude question

Thanks for the pointers Hmurrey, bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Low Cost GP-IB PCI card?

I found that USB-GPIB controller. Looks like BSD and Linux are supported. http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=549 Hi, I bought one on Ebay, they work quite well. They used to be $99 at Sparkfun, now they raised the price, and it is out of stock...

Re: [time-nuts] HP 58540A Phase Noise Improvements

In a message dated 7/7/2006 09:15:28 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Paul, While there are certainly oscillators out there approaching the -160dBc at 1KHz (OSA BVAs spring to mind), some of the phase noise performance of the OCXO will be degraded by the GPS receiver

Re: [time-nuts] HP 58540A Phase Noise Improvements

In a message dated 7/7/2006 13:43:18 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was aware of D.C. current limitations, but had no idea those other factors were so critical to performance. Hi Paul, It's not only a max current limitation, sometimes the current is measured,

Re: [time-nuts] questions on uncompensated crystal

Hello Dr. Stellmach, Great info! Thanks so much for the detailed analysis. Some comments: 27MHz can be realized by fundamental crystal, but it's on edge of technology because the crystal is pretty thin already. Therefore, a tighter specification is critical and costly, so use

Re: [time-nuts] questions on uncompensated crystal oscillators

In a message dated 7/4/2006 09:52:33 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, Please excuse the fact that this is not what we all consider precise frequency. I am selecting crystals to use for a medium to high volume application. The basic criterion are: - used with a

Re: [time-nuts] questions on uncompensated crystal oscillators

In a message dated 7/5/2006 08:30:44 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would agree with you Said, 10ppm is a lot to ask and let's be honest, production trimming is not so difficult these days. Without going to 10ppm you can get your crystal manufacturer to group your

Re: [time-nuts] questions on uncompensated crystal oscillators

In a message dated 7/5/2006 13:00:41 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, it is hard. PAL is 4433618.75 +/- 5 Hz or +/- 1.12 ppm. NTSC is 3579545 +/- 10 Hz or +/- 2.79 ppm. That is straight out of ITU-R Rec. BT.470-6. The MPEG transport stream is clocked at 2700 +/-

Re: [time-nuts] linear interpolators and itty bitty soldering

Hi Brooks, another technique that works well with a bit of practice (hopefully not on $28 parts...) is to use a heat gun: You can get a heat gun for soldering online for $30, or buy one at Home depot (paint stripper heat gun - be sure to get one with temp control!). Wet the PCB pads with

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution T

Hello Robert, thanks so much for this insight! It all makes sense now. Cranking up the Tau to 10 or 20s via RS232 would be great, then I could use the PRS10 as a reference for the TSC meter to do ADEV testing on our GPSDO. As it stands now, I am measuring the PRS10 noise up to 10s or so

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution

Hello Tom, I had a conversation with Sam S. from TSC the other day, and he said that it's probably not possible to get 10ns GPS accuracy anyways due to the multipath issues, Ionospheric issues, antenna survey issues, thermal issues etc. I tend to agree with Sam; to get this kind of

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution T

Hi Tom, The reason I investigated this is that I needed a very good (2E-012 @ 1s) short term ADEV reference to measure the performance of our GPSDO (which is around 2E-012 at 1 second as you know :) on the TSC5120A. I found that I could use the MTI 260 reference from TSC for this purpose

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution

Hi Stephan, as CH said, the antenna delay is a static setting in the M12+, it's not designed to be updated every second. I think it is only usefull in cancelling out systemic delays in the setup such as TIA, delay-line, cabling etc. Yes, we do run our sampler at 150MHz, with a resulting

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution

Hi Magnus, would you have a schematic of an interpolator with say 5ns resolution to share? Thanks, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution T

HI Hmurray, you said: One of Said's graphs had a minor bump at roughly 2 seconds. I saw another graph with a small spike at 2 seconds, but I don't remember where. I thought these bumps were rather considerable, at about 1 to 2E-011, about 8 - 10x what our GPS-locked OCXO's do. So why

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution

Thanks Magnus, BTW: how do you get the 5335 to do 12 digits? I can do it on my 5334, but haven't found a way to get the 5335 to do it. thanks, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution

Hello Poul-Henning, you wrote: Newer versions of the PRS10 firmware allows you to set the PPS input offset, and with a small program you can transmit the negative sawtooth correction from the GPS to the PRS and that solved the problem for me. How much lower were you able to get the 2s ADEV

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution

Hello Tom, We approached the sawtooth correction on the software side: we sample the 1PPS with 6.66ns resolution in our new Fury GPSDO and apply software adjusted sawtooth correction (post-capture), and this yields an easily visible, very significant reduction in the 1PPS capture noise

Re: [time-nuts] Some results of PRS10 and Trimble Resolution T

Hello Erik, I recently measured my PRS10 as well. You can see a big hump (about 1.6E-011) at the 2s measurement intervall. While this is within spec, does anyone know why the unit is so noisy at that particular intervall? Is there a filter setting that would improve this? Could this be

Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Extra Lagging etc

Hi Brian, I went through what you are about to embark upon. Some comments: * My 10811A has about +-2Hz EFC adjustment range 0-5V. I used the mechanical adjust to have about 0Hz offset at 2.5V EFC. Make sure your voltage reference for your DAC is temperature stable (5ppm per

Re: [time-nuts] M12M Timing Oncore (tm) Receiver

Hello James, Rob, its a lot better than the M12+ predecessor I've had a chance to take a look at it... bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] ICS525 Battery Top Singnal Generator - Frequency Synthesizer-...

Hello Chuck, does that price include the underboard pre-heater as well? thanks, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Question on disciplining oscillators

Hello Javier, this depends on your Rb oscillator, and if you use an external DAC circuitry then the DAC and DAC reference thermal sensitivity as well. Typically, the Rb including the DAC and DAC reference will be better than the GPS for time frames from 1000 to 1s. The GPS will

Re: [time-nuts] Question on disciplining oscillators

Hello James, I noticed that the M12+ has a significant temperature sensitivity, especially when air is flowing over the TCXO. Try blowing air onto the TCXO, I have seen the 1PPS immediatly wander off by much more than 50ns before the M12+ shuts-off the 1PPS output. Maybe you are seing

Re: [time-nuts] M12+ Temp sensitivity

Hi Randy, It's a feature, of course :) I wish the marketing guys would have added the $1 cost for the top/bottom metal can over the crystal and RF circuits (the layout engineer certainly wanted it and added the footprint to the PCB:) - like the old UT+'s etc. We all can't wait to see

Re: [time-nuts] Motorola Oncore Basic Command @@Bk Help -- Update

Hi George, sounds like a challange :) Would love to see your final version. good luck, SJ ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Motorola Oncore Basic Command @@Bk Help

Hello George, you can find pointers to the Motorola WinOncore12 software on my website (_www.jackson-labs.com_ (http://www.jackson-labs.com) ) in the Support/FAQs/GPS section. WinOncore12 decodes or assembles the commands for you, and includes a reference to the Motorola command set

Re: [time-nuts] Motorola Oncore Basic Command @@Bk Help

Forgot to mention, the WinOncore12 program also includes and extensive command list explanation in the Help section for both the 8 and 12 channel receivers! bye, SJ ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] More on paralleling output gates

Hi, one of the problems with the PCB trick described in the previous email is that PCB substrates are not very accurate in terms of impedance matching: +-10% accuracy on the impedance is already asking a lot, especially when using Asian manufacturers. Problems get worse when going

Re: [time-nuts] IC for 1 PPS Output

Paralleling CMOS inverters to drive time critical signals is not a good idea because the inverters have skews between them, even if they are on the same chip (die). The skew for an improved version of the 74AC04 part (the 74LVC04) is specified as up to 1.5ns! Interesting enough, this

Re: [time-nuts] ...Your thoughts on the Trimble Resolution T?

Hi, if I remember my statistics correctly: 1-Sigma is the standard deviation of all measurements. 6-Sigma is something like 99.997%(?) of all measurements, basically all relevant measurements. Keep in mind that the Motorola GPS need to be initialized by a binary string, they will not

Re: [time-nuts] ...Your thoughts on the Trimble Resolution T?

From the leapsecond.com website, it seems the Trimble gets 2.15E-011 at 1000s intervalls. The M12+ achieves 2.9E-012 at 1000s intervalls. The M12+ is speced at 10ns 1-Sigma, the Trimble seems to be 15ns at 1-Sigma. There is an M12+ follow-up modell comming soon which is even better

Re: [time-nuts] Wavecrest DTS-2070C

Dear Masamichi-san, thanks so much for the information. The DTS series uses an internal Vectron 100MHz OCXO with very low jitter specs (3ps). This OCXO is connected with an SMA-to-SMA cable to the backplane PCB, so it would be very easy to feed an external 100MHz signal into the unit by

Re: [time-nuts] Short-Term Stability

The DDS system you describe in your paper is very similar to our FireFox Signal Generator unit (_www.jackson-labs.com_ (http://www.jackson-labs.com) ). We included a GPSDO than can achieve parts to the E-011 accuracy in it basic form and about 10x better (being quantified now) with a

Re: [time-nuts] Wavecrest DTS-2070C

Hello Masamichi-san, yes, changing the 100MHz to be an input should be as simple as unplugging the SMA cable from the OCXO, unplugging the SMA cable from the rear panel 100MHz connector, and plugging the input cable to the unit to the rear panel connector. Of course this input is

Re: [time-nuts] OSA 8600 Oscillators

Hi Hans, how many, what options, and what price? Are they NOS? Tested? thanks, SJ ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Time Interval Analysis over GPIB

Has anyone used Wavecrest (Wave) Digital Time Systems? I bought a DTS-2070C on Ebay for cheap, and would like to figure out how to get the data from it into my PC to do Allan Deviation etc. These older systems have up to 1630MHz measurement range with femtosecond (repeatitive) resolution.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Selective Availability. Is it On or Off?

Hello Rob, please send a copy to me too ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) ). thanks, SJ ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Selective Availability. Is it On or Off?

Hi, this could be your GPS receiver. I have seen units not made for timing that have a 1PPS pulse totally out of spec once in a while. bye, SJ ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Thought experiment on a low cost timing board

Hello Poul-Henning, how does SRS handle OCXO aging? If the fine DAC only has 1:1000 of their 12-bit coarse DAC, and the EFC range is +-20Hz, then the LSB DAC can only control about 2E-09 or so over its full range if my math is correct. Good OCXO's (e.g. MTI) crystals usually age between

<    3   4   5   6   7   8