Don't leave us in suspense :-) What method did you decide to use?
Joe Gray
W5JG
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> A week ago I asked about a 10 MHz to 16 MHz multiplier. Thanks very much for
> the suggestions and interesting discussion.
>
>> What's the simplest way to genera
A week ago I asked about a 10 MHz to 16 MHz multiplier. Thanks very much for
the suggestions and interesting discussion.
> What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This
> will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz
> (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is
Actually, I was referring to an RC and Diode network in anticipation of
the possible need for more signal shaping flexibility, depending on the
signals and circuitry. The built-in oscillators are usually self-biased
CMOS inverters intended to go with crystals, and usually a couple of
small phas
Ed you are late to the dance. But do offer an additional piece of the
puzzle.
RCD I will guess is a RC differentiator. And your suggestion does get rid
of a separate oscillator. It wasn't my post. But would guess you just jam
the diff pulse into the osc amp in that the xtal feeds?
Regards
Paul
WB8T
I'm kind of late to the party on this one, and don't want to reopen and
send it off on a tangent. I agree with the injection-lock method, but
just want to suggest that since most uPs and uCs have their own CMOS
oscillator built in, the simplest solution would be to just use that as
intended, wi
On 1/4/2013 4:48 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
As I recall the spec was:
1) Cheap
2) no phase slips on the 16 MHz relative to 10 MHz
3) Cheap
Bob
GAK!
Here is the original from TVB
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz give
HI
Ok, it's TimeNuts, we need numbers…
Say no phase slips is 0.1 UI on the 16 MHz. That would be a jitter number of
6.25 ns RMS.
Bob
On Jan 4, 2013, at 7:18 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
> How about getting back to basics.
> Is it a one off, if production how many and what are the specification
I think the thread branched and as I recall started something like this.
Someone needed a "Simple" 16 Mhz for a uproc made from a 10 Mhz source.
Two reasonable answers were given.
Injection locked oscillator
Typical div and mult/filter.
A third and kind of interesting for me a Ti chip soic digital
Hi
As I recall the spec was:
1) Cheap
2) no phase slips on the 16 MHz relative to 10 MHz
3) Cheap
Bob
On Jan 4, 2013, at 7:18 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
> How about getting back to basics.
> Is it a one off, if production how many and what are the specification
> requirements? Otherwise on
How about getting back to basics.
Is it a one off, if production how many and what are the specification
requirements? Otherwise on this list it can go on for a year.
Bert Kehren
In a message dated 1/4/2013 6:11:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
wlfuq...@uky.edu writes:
At 07:51 PM 1/4/2013
At 07:51 PM 1/4/2013 +, you wrote:
My question is about the phase noise of the final 16MHz signal. Do
> crystal filters "clean up" the signal. It seems that after several
> 16MHz crystals in series the output should look a lot like an XO.
>
For offsets out to 100 Hz or so, using a crystal
On 1/4/13 10:25 AM, Rick Karlquist wrote:
Chris Albertson wrote:
My question is about the phase noise of the final 16MHz signal. Do
crystal filters "clean up" the signal. It seems that after several
16MHz crystals in series the output should look a lot like an XO.
For offsets out to 100 Hz
If you divide by 5 the phase noise sideband amplitude (voltage) will be
divided by 5.
That is a reduction of 14db for all phase noise sideband frequencies . Then
when you multiply that by 8 you will add the phase noise
sidebands will be multiplied by 8 or 3x6db or 18 db. So the end result will
Chris Albertson wrote:
> My question is about the phase noise of the final 16MHz signal. Do
> crystal filters "clean up" the signal. It seems that after several
> 16MHz crystals in series the output should look a lot like an XO.
>
For offsets out to 100 Hz or so, using a crystal filter will cau
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:02 PM, Tom Miller wrote:
> > Isn't there a fast divide by N counter that you could set to 10? Maybe
> even
> > in ECL?
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - From: "David"
> > To: "Discussion of precise time and f
From: "David"
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
>
>
>
> They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last
tmil...@skylinenet.net said:
> Isn't there a fast divide by N counter that you could set to 10? Maybe even
> in ECL?
The 74xx16y are 4 bit loadable counters. 2 are binary, 2 are decimal.
I think 1 of each pair has a synchronous reset/clear, the other is async.
Mouser has the 74AC161 and 74AC16
On 1/3/2013 6:22 PM, David wrote:
Alternatively if you just want to divide by
5 or some other small fixed number, you can use a couple of flip-flips
and gates.
Flip-flips are good for digitally implementing tick-tick clocks, right?
:-) (Use flop-flops for tock-tock.)
At 12:58 AM 1/4/2013 +, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that
have been mentioned.
None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or
even the Chinese.
Also data-sheets are not to be found.
Thanks
This is
>
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
>
>
>They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490
>made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them.
>Actually, I have seen a datash
From: "David"
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490
made was LS (low power schott
Isn't there a fast divide by N counter that you could set to 10? Maybe even
in ECL?
- Original Message -
From: "David"
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -
They do not exist as I found out (again) not long ago. The last 7490
made was LS (low power schottky) and I use quite a few of them.
Actually, I have seen a datasheet for a 74HC90 and 74HCT90 but they
apparently either never went into production or very few were
produced.
The closest non-TTL alte
Am 04.01.2013 01:59, schrieb Max:
Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that
have been mentioned.
None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or
even the Chinese.
Also data-sheets are not to be found.
you can't find 'em because they're not ther
Where can one get some of these mythical 74HC90 's and 74AC90 's that
have been mentioned.
None of the usual places have them, ie ebay, digi-key, farnell, or
even the Chinese.
Also data-sheets are not to be found.
Thanks
On 4/01/2013 5:13 AM, Bill Fuqua wrote:
One way is to divide by
One way is to divide by 10 and then multiply by 16.
Divide by 10 and then follow by 4 tuned frequency doublers.
This should introduce little phase noise.
Another way to do it is to divide by 10, then pass the output thru a
narrow 16 MHz filter and amplify. Sounds difficult but the filter
ff: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
>
>
> What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This
> will be for clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz
> (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and low parts count is a goal;
> jitter is not a concern bu
rting to get complicated.
Simon
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 21:19:16 -0800
From: "WarrenS"
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
Message-ID: <87417D31224740BFB6BBB320B762E80D
> What is low cost?? Serious question.
The OP (tvb) said "maybe not SSOP" so he's not interested in typical high
volume production techniques. I assume he's interested home brew stuff using
low cost parts and free labor.
I'd put the knee of the curve at $10. $1 would be great. $100 is too mu
nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von Tom Van Baak
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2013 19:55
> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Betreff: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
>
>
> What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10
On 02/01/13 19:54, Tom Van Baak wrote:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and
low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase
coherence is a must.
T
Tom
For simple, cheap, low performance and fast to build with junk box parts,
hard to beat:
What I made long ago for myself (before time-nut days).
I still use it today for low end stuff, and it is all done with standard
74HC DIP parts.
The main IC is a 74HCT4046 Phase lock loop with internal
How about simply using a 16MHz GPSDO?
We have shipped FireFly-1A units with 16MHz Ocxo..
Those can also generate 16MHz out of a 1PPS reference.
Bye,
Said
Sent From iPhone
On Jan 2, 2013, at 12:58, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak:
>> What's the simplest way
an Baak , Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz clock multiplier
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Tom,
This may not be the answer you are looking for, but the simplest way may be
to
Tom,
This may not be the answer you are looking for, but the simplest way may be
to use a uC that has a PLL for clock generation.
Didier
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote:
> What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
> clocking a microcontroller
The optimum width of the injection pulse is equal to 1/2 the period of
the output frequency of the injection locked oscillator.
In this case a pulse width of around 31.25ns
Bruce
paul swed wrote:
Bruce is right about that fact. Thanks.
Square up the 10 Mhz. Diff the leading edge (It actually d
I wrote:
> The on-board VCXO range is 80 to 230 MHz, so I'd multiply the 10 MHz
> up to 160 MHz and then divide by 10.
In case it's not obvious, I meant to write "the on-chip VCO".
Obviously it's *not* a crystal oscillator; I just failed to
supervise my typing fingers carefully enough.
__
I looked at the TI chip that really seems simple.
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
> Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak:
>
>> What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
>> clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO).
Am 02.01.2013 19:54, schrieb Tom Van Baak:
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and
low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase
coherence is a must
> What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz?
Well, it's a few dollars and *is* a TSSOP, but I've been playing with
TI's CDCE913/925/937/949 series. They're nice little I2C-programmable
fractional-N PLL chips.
You can either program them in software, or save the config to on-board
fl
Hi
I think I'd second the thought of join with an ARM or something like it that
will be happy with 10 MHz in. Next choice would be a PIC24 / dsPIC33 that's
also happy with 10 MHz in. The money you will pay for the clock conversion
chip(s) will go a long way spent on a CPU.
Bob
On Jan 2, 2013
Bruce is right about that fact. Thanks.
Square up the 10 Mhz. Diff the leading edge (It actually doesn't matter)
maybe 2-5pf cap and 300 ohm R to ground. Feed this into a transistor that
is in the bottom end of a one transistor oscillator. There are actually
several ways to inject. Think of a totem
Since injection locking is possible when the ratio of the 2 frequencies
involved is a rational number, a 16 MHz oscillator can be directly
injection locked to a 10MHz signal without the need for dividers etc.
Bruce
paul swed wrote:
Tom.
OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8
Tom.
OK the challenge simple. CD4046 16 MHz vco and div by 8 using a 2 Mhz ref.
Thats pretty easy as they say.
As an alternative and very easy 10 MHz div 2 2MHz X 4 X 2. This requires
BPF but pretty easy also.
Lastly an injection osc. 10 Mhz div to 2 Mhz differentiate and feed to a 16
Mhz osc.
That
What's the simplest way to generate 16 MHz from 10 MHz? This will be for
clocking a microcontroller at 16 MHz given 10 MHz (Cs/Rb/GPSDO). Low price and
low parts count is a goal; jitter is not a concern but absolute long-term phase
coherence is a must.
The ICS525 (as in TAPR Clock-Block) is a g
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