Hi
The spec they were after was a warmup to on frequency +/- 1x10^-8 from -40 C
sort of thing. I believe the warmup time was under 15 minutes, but I don't
know the exact number.
Bob
On Jan 9, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Mike S wrote:
At 06:36 PM 1/9/2011, Tom Van Baak wrote...
The outer oven was
At 07:59 AM 1/10/2011, Bob Camp wrote...
The spec they were after was a warmup to on frequency +/- 1x10^-8
from -40 C sort of thing. I believe the warmup time was under 15
minutes, but I don't know the exact number.
Nope. It was only spec'd for operation from 0-50C. It was required to
IMHO, The dual oven 10811 oscillators I've seen are not designed as some
hack JUST to do a quick warm-up.
The six sided heater and all the trouble they went thru to insulate the
inside oven from any effects from the outside is a design meant to keep the
inside oven highly isolated from wide
: [time-nuts] 10811 foam enclosure
At 07:59 AM 1/10/2011, Bob Camp wrote...
The spec they were after was a warmup to on frequency +/- 1x10^-8
from -40 C sort of thing. I believe the warmup time was under 15
minutes, but I don't know the exact number.
Nope. It was only spec'd for operation from 0-50C
Bob Camp wrote:
the story to remember that sort of detail.
I've never seen any frequency vs temperature data on the double oven
10811's that shows they are significantly better than a normal part. HP
apparently never published any data. They also never used the approach
again, despite it's
It is perhaps wise to remind ourselves at this point that the designers'
approach was good enough whereas the typical time-nut's approach is as
good as it can possibly be.
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.comwrote:
Bob Camp wrote:
the story to remember that
measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 foam enclosure
It is perhaps wise to remind ourselves at this point that the designers'
approach was good enough whereas the typical time-nut's approach
li...@lazygranch.com wrote:
Designers want good enough at the lowest cost. This oven design sounds
complicated.
I was not cheap, it was not high performance, it was not elegant.
But it did get product shipped on time.
Rick
___
time-nuts mailing
Being a Shera Fan I finally broke down and bought a Tbolt. I experimented
with a foam enclosure with roughly 1 centimeter on all sides. What I found
that it only increased the board temperature by 19 C. It was still as
sensitive to ambient. Thanks to Lady Heater it even shows an increase
In message 3150c.48e44656.3a5b1...@aol.com, ewkeh...@aol.com writes:
Being a Shera Fan I finally broke down and bought a Tbolt. I experimented
with a foam enclosure with roughly 1 centimeter on all sides.
Try to think of your foam as a resistor, your alu box as a capacitor
and heat as a
Thanks Poul-Henning makes sense Bert
In a message dated 1/9/2011 11:06:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
p...@phk.freebsd.dk writes:
In message 3150c.48e44656.3a5b1...@aol.com, ewkeh...@aol.com writes:
Being a Shera Fan I finally broke down and bought a Tbolt. I experimented
with a foam
Hi
The answer to the how far can you go is (as always) that depends.
You can tweak a 10811 balance wise to get it's thermal gain up 10X over the
factory settings. You may be able to go higher, but 10 is what's been
published. That will give you an oscillator who's crystal is very insensitive
Bert:
Make sure you are working on the correct problem.
I find that the normal (in accordance with published specifications) daily aging
of the crystal exceeds the daily variation of frequency with temperature of
a stock 10811 in a benign (office or home) environment.
If you are seeing
On 09/01/11 17:05, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message3150c.48e44656.3a5b1...@aol.com, ewkeh...@aol.com writes:
Being a Shera Fan I finally broke down and bought a Tbolt. I experimented
with a foam enclosure with roughly 1 centimeter on all sides.
Try to think of your foam as a resistor,
Graham,
I have no problems with my 10811 I just want to experiment with ways to
improve performance, right now I have several that are in the E-13 range
between 1 and 100 sec and am getting greedy and looking for ways to improve one
of them. Want to take it step by step and not degrade a
Q) Has anyone experimented with the amount of insulation on a 10811
oscillator?
a) Look inside a double oven 10811 to see one example of what works.
Q) None of the hp/Agilent bench test equipment that uses these
oscillators uses insulation. Perhaps that's a clue.
a) It is not much of a
Thanks for all the info. Agree after my tests on the Tbolt, that is why I
will place large mass around it, will keep it close to ambient and move
slowly.
What is the zero G axis?
Presently oven current is 65 mA down from 95 at room temp so I have room to
go but I will monitor over ambient
When I was working with a group that was buillding astronomical
cameras using CCD chips we wanted to keep the CCD chip at a very
constant temperature that was much lower than ambient. This is
actually a harder problem then building a crystal oven but still not
out of amateur's range.We ued a
My experiences placing my thunderbolt board in various insulated containers
show little or no improvement over simply putting a cardboard box over it to
keep drafts away. As time allows I'm going to re run some of the tests using
my 5370 and an external standard vs relying on the data from
I use Alu extrusion that is used on commercial windows, got it twenty years
ago, but they may still use it. Bert
In a message dated 1/9/2011 3:09:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mspencer12...@yahoo.ca writes:
My experiences placing my thunderbolt board in various insulated
containers
A simple box is fine for many Tbolt applications.
Much depends on the TBolt Osc and what setting you have, especially the TC
and damping.
With the factory default setting you can pretty much put the thing in an
outside unsheltered shed and have it work OK,
But it will not be the best it can
Being a Shera Fan I finally broke down and bought a Tbolt. I experimented
with a foam enclosure with roughly 1 centimeter on all sides. What I found
that it only increased the board temperature by 19 C. It was still as
sensitive to ambient. Thanks to Lady Heater it even shows an increase of
Does anyone have actual measurements with and without the outer oven
controlled by a PID?
see plot:
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/attachments/20100223/c94d5eec/attachment-0001.gif
on posting
http://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2010-February/045279.html
To avoid misunderstanding
On 10/01/11 00:59, Tom Van Baak wrote:
Being a Shera Fan I finally broke down and bought a Tbolt. I
experimented with a foam enclosure with roughly 1 centimeter on all
sides. What I found that it only increased the board temperature by 19
C. It was still as sensitive to ambient. Thanks to Lady
At 06:36 PM 1/9/2011, Tom Van Baak wrote...
The outer oven was a hack so Z3801A could meet telecom cell tower cold
weather warm-up specs. In other words, the better performance they
were looking for in that case was warm-up time; not a tempco or
frequency stability spec.
The Nortel GPSR
WarrenS wrote:
a) Aging Rate spec 5e-10, easy to find ones that are 100 times better
That is news to me, having looked at 100's of 10811's.
b) Temp TC for small changes, easy to find/Made them 100 times better with
outer oven
I'm surprised, but haven't detailed knowledge. The outer
oven
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