Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-18 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Here is some actual RF data on a number of antennas: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/ There also is a pretty good document on how the calibration is performed. It appears that if you are after ps or mm then a calibration file on the antenna type being used is needed. Pointing north to be ab

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-17 Thread Bob Camp
Hi > On Dec 17, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Jim Lux wrote: > > On 12/17/14, 4:36 AM, Bob Camp wrote: >> HI >> >>> On Dec 17, 2014, at 1:07 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: >>> >>> I would venture that the extent of the magic was to note the physical >>> center of the array, and call that the phase center. >>> >

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 12/17/14, 4:36 AM, Bob Camp wrote: HI On Dec 17, 2014, at 1:07 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: I would venture that the extent of the magic was to note the physical center of the array, and call that the phase center. As long as you always orient the antenna in the same direction, any errors that

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-17 Thread Bob Camp
HI > On Dec 17, 2014, at 1:07 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: > > I would venture that the extent of the magic was to note the physical > center of the array, and call that the phase center. > > As long as you always orient the antenna in the same direction, any > errors that might exist in the real ph

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Chuck Harris
I would venture that the extent of the magic was to note the physical center of the array, and call that the phase center. As long as you always orient the antenna in the same direction, any errors that might exist in the real phase center will be consistent, and could be corrected for by noting

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Charles Steinmetz
Inquiring minds surely are in high gear!! And to think, all I wanted to know was how close I needed to to point to north!! The need to point north is a legitimate question. There is a chance that they designed some magic into it to deliberately shape the response. Having taken a few apart,

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Bob Camp
Hi > On Dec 16, 2014, at 9:15 PM, Dave M wrote: > > Jim Lux wrote: >> On 12/16/14, 5:59 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Clever idea, but.. Most rotary joints have more phase and amplitude variability than the antenna. So you're stuck with rotating back and forth with a ca

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Dave M
Jim Lux wrote: On 12/16/14, 5:59 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Clever idea, but.. Most rotary joints have more phase and amplitude variability than the antenna. So you're stuck with rotating back and forth with a cable that's flexing and now you get to measure the phase variability of the coax. I

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 12/16/14, 5:59 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Clever idea, but.. Most rotary joints have more phase and amplitude variability than the antenna. So you're stuck with rotating back and forth with a cable that's flexing and now you get to measure the phase variability of the coax. I was thinking of

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Tom Van Baak
> Clever idea, but.. > > Most rotary joints have more phase and amplitude variability than the > antenna. > > So you're stuck with rotating back and forth with a cable that's flexing > and now you get to measure the phase variability of the coax. I was thinking of some sort of non-contact RF b

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 12/15/14, 8:10 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: But to prove us wrong, put the antenna on a 17 hour turn-table, collect data for 6 months, and then see if you see any 17h peaks in the FFT! Clever idea, but.. Most rotary joints have more phase and amplitude variability than the antenna. So you'

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread Bob Camp
Hi > On Dec 15, 2014, at 11:20 PM, Dave M wrote: > > Jim Lux wrote: >> On 12/15/14, 5:46 PM, Dave M wrote: >>> With all the discussion about surveys & position accuracy, I have a >>> question about my choke ring antenna. There is an arrow marked "N" >>> on the underside of the rings. How accura

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-16 Thread David McGaw
To answer which "North", it is True North, not Magnetic. Orbits, including GPS, are specified relative to the geographic pole. Magnetic North moves noticeably over time and place. True North moves somewhat over time but only very slightly. David On 12/15/14 9:05 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 12/1

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-15 Thread Dave M
Jim Lux wrote: On 12/15/14, 5:46 PM, Dave M wrote: With all the discussion about surveys & position accuracy, I have a question about my choke ring antenna. There is an arrow marked "N" on the underside of the rings. How accurately does the alignment need to be to "N"orth? True north or magnet

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-15 Thread Tom Van Baak
> With all the discussion about surveys & position accuracy, I have a question > about my choke ring antenna. There is an arrow marked "N" on the underside > of the rings. How accurately does the alignment need to be to "N"orth? > True north or magnetic north (my thinking says True North)? >

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 12/15/14, 5:46 PM, Dave M wrote: With all the discussion about surveys & position accuracy, I have a question about my choke ring antenna. There is an arrow marked "N" on the underside of the rings. How accurately does the alignment need to be to "N"orth? True north or magnetic north (my thi

Re: [time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi If: 1) You are doing a survey of a number of points in an area 2) You want to hit the “1/5 mm accuracy” that your system is rated to :) 3) You really do care Then: You point the arrow north to the best of your ability to make all the antenna errors show up in the same direction. It becom

[time-nuts] Choke Rings and Points North

2014-12-15 Thread Dave M
With all the discussion about surveys & position accuracy, I have a question about my choke ring antenna. There is an arrow marked "N" on the underside of the rings. How accurately does the alignment need to be to "N"orth? True north or magnetic north (my thinking says True North)? Does the d