Hi All,
Well I'm doing stuff and have had an interesting journey so far and thought
it was time to share it with people who get it. My girlfriend just doesn't
understand...
First I want to give thanks to Stan Searing and Steve Roberts who emailed a
scanned manual and to tvb for the offer to send
The first question to ask is how long had the unit been inactive and how long
has it been powered up? I have noticed on several 5370 counters that the
oscillators took several (4-6 weeks) to stabilize after I received the units.
I am pretty sure that the units had been inactive for quite a wh
Speaking of carbon comp resistors that change value... If you have any Tek
S-xx sampling heads for the 7000 series scopes that are not working (almost
always shows up with a flat trace off the top or bottom of the screen, visible
with the beam finder) the problem is usually that one or more
The 2N1701 is a general purpose transistor rated at 60V, 2.5A. Problem is it
is in a TO-8 package. You probably won't find an exact replacement as this
package is rather rare. You should be able work in a TO-220 or smaller
packaged device. NTE lists a cross reference for the device. Watc
OK, I'm puzzled. Can someone with a good knowledge of OCXOs explain my
observation. This is my HP 106B double ovened quartz oscillator, but
I'm sure the theory applies generally.
It's easiest to show these observations as made-up but approximate
numbers an hour apart. Say the device is set to 5.00
Jim
I may be talking out of the wrong end of my digestive tract, but what
timescale were you using for your measurements?
If you are seeing a continual drift with observations over an hour or two,
I'd look to see what you have over 24 hours or more. Is it possible that
the drift you are seeing
Hi Jim,
Maybe 5 hours is insufficient time for the oven to stabilize at each new
temperature setting? If I remember correctly, plotting all the data (and
waiting for oscillator/oven to stabilize at each incremental temperature
setting took me >30 days to complete the whole plot? ...This was 25 y
Greg Burnett wrote:
Hi Jim,
Maybe 5 hours is insufficient time for the oven to stabilize at each new
temperature setting? If I remember correctly, plotting all the data (and
waiting for oscillator/oven to stabilize at each incremental temperature
setting took me >30 days to complete the whole
Behalf Of Jim Palfreyman
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:38 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so
far
OK, I'm puzzled. Can someone with a good knowledge of OCXOs explain my
observation. This is
J. L. Trantham wrote:
Are you just seeing the transient as it reaches a new equilibrium of
temperature after which it would reduce to a background drift rate or is
this the observation after it has stabilized?
I think doing the type of long-time log that I proposed may help in
getting to know
If I recall correctly, the HP quartz oscillator manuals say that you must allow
at least 72 hours of burn in after shipment from the factory, and 72 hours
between
frequency adjustments.
Double oven quartz oscillators are dodgy things. The Sulzer 2.5C and HP 107's
that live
in my shop have an i
Hi All,
Thanks very much for your interesting replies.
I'm beginning to think I'm not letting it settle between adjustments.
And besides, The thing has been powered off for at least a decade I
would suspect and maybe I'm just watching the crystal adjust to micro
changes in temperature as it warms
Hi
Regardless of weather it's a single or double oven, you want the
crystal to be at it's "turn temperature". If you have a BT cut
crystal, that's going to be the highest frequency you find as you move
the oven around. With either a double or single oven, you should be
able to "map out" a
t had?
warren
***
- Original Message -
From: "Jim Palfreyman"
To: "WarrenS" ; "Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement"
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Regardless of weather it's a single or double oven, you want the crystal
to be at it's "turn temperature". If you have a BT cut crystal, that's
going to be the highest frequency you find as you move the oven around.
With either a double or single oven, you should be able to
: Thursday, August 06, 2009 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so far
> Hi
>
> Regardless of weather it's a single or double oven, you want the
> crystal to be at it's "turn temperature". If you have a BT cut
> c
2009/8/7 Chuck Harris :
> If I recall correctly, the HP quartz oscillator manuals say that you must
> allow
> at least 72 hours of burn in after shipment from the factory, and 72 hours
> between
> frequency adjustments.
>
> Double oven quartz oscillators are dodgy things. The Sulzer 2.5C and HP
>
e time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so
far
Hi All,
In all this, keep in mind my power rails are running a few volts high and
I'm not sure the effect this is having in the oven.
Regards,
2009/8/7 David C. Partridge :
> I'c curious, what is so strange about the pass xistor in the PSU that you
> can't replace it?
Getting one.
So far I've found places with $300 minimum buys.
However, as I write I can get one for $30 including postage to
Australia. Still expensive.
Unless anyone ha
In a message dated 08/08/2009 09:53:35 GMT Daylight Time,
jim77...@gmail.com writes:
Getting one.
So far I've found places with $300 minimum buys.
However, as I write I can get one for $30 including postage to
Australia. Still expensive.
Unless anyone has a 2N1701 lying around?
Two quest
on of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so
far
2009/8/7 David C. Partridge :
> I'c curious, what is so strange about the pass xistor in the PSU that
> you can't replace it?
Getting one.
So far I've foun
of precise time and frequency measurement"
Sent: Saturday, 08 August, 2009 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so
far
2009/8/7 David C. Partridge :
I'c curious, what is so strange about the pass xistor in the PSU that you
can't repl
In a message dated 08/08/2009 10:39:50 GMT Daylight Time,
ms...@bigpond.net.au writes:
I have a few old Fairchild transistors that would drop right in.
They are AY9139 60V 4A Beta ~50 PNP Si. Much the same as 2N1701.
Let me know and I'll pop some i the post.
My data indicates the
In a message dated 08/08/2009 09:53:35 GMT Daylight Time,
jim77...@gmail.com writes:
Unless anyone has a 2N1701 lying around?
Hi Jim
Going back through the archives I see you're about three volts high on
that power rail, certainly more than I 'd expect through normal t
gandal...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 08/08/2009 09:53:35 GMT Daylight Time,
jim77...@gmail.com writes:
Unless anyone has a 2N1701 lying around?
Hi Jim
Going back through the archives I see you're about three volts high on
that power rail, certainly more than I
In a message dated 08/08/2009 11:56:59 GMT Daylight Time,
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes:
Please also note that it is not necesserilly that transistor which could
be bad, but the driving curcuit may have gone bad.
Exactly:-)
___
time-nuts ma
Jeez, this is not rocket science !
This instrument is old enough to have used the common "Allen Bradley" carbon
composition resistors of that day. These puppies are famous for changing value
due to humidity without ever passing any electrons through them.
If the voltage is relatively close and t
gandal...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 08/08/2009 11:56:59 GMT Daylight Time,
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes:
Please also note that it is not necesserilly that transistor which could
be bad, but the driving curcuit may have gone bad.
Exactly:-)
In one case, the buffer transi
OK folks, I've rechecked the voltages and here's the details.
Firstly, changing the oven temperature screw was a mistake. Read a
previous thread to see why I did it. It was logical given my
experience with 10811 ovens. I've owned up to it and begged
forgiveness from the great Flying Spaghetti Mons
Hi Jim,
YES, please email me the schematics.
thank you
BillWB6BNQ
wb6...@cox.net
Jim Palfreyman wrote:
> OK folks, I've rechecked the voltages and here's the details.
>
> Firstly, changing the oven temperature screw was a mistake. Read a
> previous thread to see why I did it. It was logica
And one more request, please measure and tell me what the values are for
the base of the pass element and any driver transistor connections.
Also, it may be that the power supply is really a current source for
charging the batteries. The power supply and the instrument may need
the batteries to
Hi Jim,
I'd be happy to see what's up with your 106B.
Could you please email me the manual, or let me know where I can
download it?
Thanks,
Adrian
Jim Palfreyman schrieb:
OK folks, I've rechecked the voltages and here's the details.
Firstly, changing the oven temperature screw was a mistake
As has been pointed out, my post intended for the group didn't reach
it. It is answering the question as to WHY I fiddled with the oven
temperature. Here it is:
Well I can give you an answer - but it doesn't change anything :-)
Oh great flying spaghetti monster, forgive me f
I don't have the prints, but suspect there is not an IC opamp in the
regulator. The unit is too old. IMO, it's more likely to be built out of
discrete parts. You might therefore look for a leaky capacitor also.
-John
===
> The 2N1701 is a general purpose transistor rated at 60V, 2.5A.
Jim,
shit just happens ;-)
Thanks for the manual.
Apparently the +18 V supply on the outer oven controller A1A4 is faulty.
The 17.4 volts are just 18 V - Vbe.
Read 4-42 and check the circuit on fig. 5-8.
The series regulating transistor is Q9.
Check voltages on Q7, Q9 first.
Adrian
Jim Palfrey
boun...@febo.com]on
> Behalf Of WB6BNQ
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:07 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story
> so far
>
>
>
>
> And one more request, please measure and
Jim Palfreyman wrote:
OK folks, I've rechecked the voltages and here's the details.
Firstly, changing the oven temperature screw was a mistake. Read a
previous thread to see why I did it. It was logical given my
experience with 10811 ovens. I've owned up to it and begged
forgiveness from the gre
Magnus,
yes, but there are two Q3 transistors on the same schematic. I think Jim
is talking about the other Q3 that is in the upper right corner of fig.
5-12, and is marked 2N1701. It's just there to generate +17.4 (and +7)
from the +24, and is controled by the +18 V regulator in the oven assy
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:56 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so
far
Hi Jim,
I'd be happy to see
, 2009 5:56 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so
> far
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I'd be happy to see what's up with your 106B.
> Could you please email me the manual, or let me kn
> The 2N1701 is a general purpose transistor rated at 60V, 2.5A.
I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating.
If you are having trouble with an old school linear power supply, in
many cases you can replace the TO-220 PNP pass transistor *and* the
reguatlor circuit (based on a 723 or wh
christopher hoover wrote:
> > The 2N1701 is a general purpose transistor rated at 60V, 2.5A.
>
> I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating.
>
> If you are having trouble with an old school linear power supply, in
> many cases you can replace the TO-220 PNP pass transistor *and* the
> regu
The circuit is so simple and has so few parts, I'd be inclined to unsolder
the transistors and diodes and test them. It should take less than a half
hour with a Pace solder sucker or equivalent.
If there are bad transistors, you could likely bend the leads of a TO-220
part the fit the PCB and add
Re-read Jim's posts.
To me it seems clear that he is talking about the 2N1701 Q3 in the upper
right corner of fig. 5-12.
He mentioned that +18 measures high, around 26V.
So, the problem is NOT in the battery charger circuit.
The purpose of that Q3 is to generate +17.4V (and +7V) from +26V, wit
The 18V regulator is still not directly replaceable with an LT1581 which
has an inadequate voltage rating.
Replacing either of the 2N1701's with a more modern transistor may well
lead to oscillations due to the much higher ft of the replacement
transistor.
Bruce
Adrian wrote:
> Re-read Jim's post
Hi all,
Latest update.
With some help and phone calls from Bill the fault seems to have been
isolated. I have removed Q11 from inside the oven and it is cactus. Q9
is also very suspect so I'm going to replace that for good measure.
Q9 is a 2N1701 in a T08 package. Thanks to various people I shou
- Original Message
From: Jim Palfreyman
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 7:31:31 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 106B quartz frequency standard...the story so, far
Hi all,
Latest update.
With some help and phone calls from Bill
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