John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote:
That's an interesting answer. Can you explain what you mean by
faster digital noise analysis capabilities?
The 3048A is relatively cumbersome to use, compared to a modern
phase-noise test set with high dynamic range ADCs. Conceptually, a
Mike Monett wrote:
John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote:
That's an interesting answer. Can you explain what you mean by
faster digital noise analysis capabilities?
The 3048A is relatively cumbersome to use, compared to a modern
phase-noise test set with high dynamic range
That is a very interesting answer. No wonder Stein pushes ease of
use so much for the 5120/5125. But they are $40k to $50k in Canada,
so obviously it's time for a new approach.
1) Where would you find ADCs with enough speed and resolution to
capture the noise signal from
John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote:
[...]
Thanks for your help, John.
Mike
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That's an interesting answer. Can you explain what you mean by
faster digital noise analysis capabilities?
The 3048A is relatively cumbersome to use, compared to a modern phase-noise
test set with high dynamic range ADCs. Conceptually, a software radio with
multiple ADC channels
John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote:
[...]
Thanks - this stuff is all pretty cheap if you wait by the eBay
river long enough. It is more important to have an understanding
S.O. than a large equipment budget (the 3048A occupies a 6' rack
in what amounts to my living room).
Mark Sims wrote:
At least the cesium ions don't have to travel through a maze of twisty
passages, all alike...
Oh Plugh!
Just to be perfectly clear, the cesium (caesium) atoms is neutral as
they pass through the A-magnet, microwave interigations,
Is it REALLY a mass spec? After all, it only detects a single ion, like a
He leak detector. The He units can be tuned for He3 or He4
-Jo0hn
=
Mark Sims wrote:
At least the cesium ions don't have to travel through a maze of twisty
passages, all alike...
J. Forster wrote:
Is it REALLY a mass spec? After all, it only detects a single ion, like a
He leak detector. The He units can be tuned for He3 or He4
Well... you need to ionize and then hit the photomultiplier. No fancy
bending magnetic field really needed...
If I end up with a used Cs
Electron multiplier, not photomultiplier. Input is NOT photons.
With a scanned magnet, it could act as a RGA.
-John
J. Forster wrote:
Is it REALLY a mass spec? After all, it only detects a single ion, like
a
He leak detector. The He units can be tuned for He3 or He4
Well...
J. Forster wrote:
Is it REALLY a mass spec? After all, it only detects a single ion, like
a
He leak detector. The He units can be tuned for He3 or He4
It is a mass spec in the sense that it detects Cs ions well and rejects
other ions, because it is tuned to Cs. There is an adjustable
voltage
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
yet another reason not to buy a CS clock. What kind of self-destructive bs
is this?
Don
- Original Message -
From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Don Latham wrote:
yet another reason not to buy a CS clock. What kind of self-destructive
bs is this?
The expensive kind.
I recall a discussion about refilling cesium in tubes from another
direction. I was suppriced that they did not understand how cesium
contaminates the tube, how
, 2009 12:00 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam
Tube
[...]
Peak beam current with this tube is about 25 nA (-980mv pk into 40
Mohms), compared to the 80-200 nA typical range that the manual
calls for, and the Cs
John Miles jmi...@pop.net wrote:
It's an HP 3048A. I have long held vague ambitions toward
replacing it with a homebrew digital system but it hasn't happened
yet.
john, KE5FX
Thanks, John. You have a fortune in first-class equipment!
From your previous post:
But
Hi Magnus: I don't express myself well at all. I meant the meanness and
shortsighted technique of insuring the equipment would not run without the
magic poem. Unnecessary IMHO.
I thoroughly agree with all of you that refilling the tube is
unquestionably a waste of time.
Don
Magnus Danielson
Don
Hi Don,
Don Latham wrote:
Hi Magnus: I don't express myself well at all. I meant the meanness and
shortsighted technique of insuring the equipment would not run without the
magic poem. Unnecessary IMHO.
Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted
Magnus:
Sometimes Easter eggs are nice, I agree. But they are usually pleasant
surprises rather than needed to make the equipment function ;-)
(lathe inside inert
environment is just not lying around).
Gosh, I have a tiny lathe, a bell jar, and a pump. How big is the tube? Of
course, I have
In message 4aa5766c.5090...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson writes:
Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
into chants and poems of its master magicians. :)
Those of you with a HP3458A can
Oh Plugh!
:-)
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 07 September 2009 22:44
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium
At least the cesium ions don't have to travel through a maze of twisty
passages, all alike...
Oh Plugh!
_
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
It's an HP 3048A. I have long held vague ambitions toward
replacing it with a homebrew digital system but it hasn't happened
yet.
john, KE5FX
Thanks, John. You have a fortune in first-class equipment!
Thanks -- this stuff is all pretty cheap if you wait by the eBay
- Original Message -
From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
In message 4aa5766c.5090
:43 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
In message 4aa5766c.5090...@rubidium.dyndns.org, Magnus Danielson
writes:
Oh, I find the poem a nice tongue-in-cheek from its designer. We have
always wanted refined high precission physical science to be dwelled
@febo.com
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain. Copyright
poof!
FWIW,
-John
- Original Message -
From: Poul-Henning Kamp p
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
Presumably, the author could put the poem in the Public Domain.
Copyright
poof!
FWIW,
-John
- Original Message -
From: Poul-Henning Kamp p
Back in the day, the Phone Company claimed copyright on the phone book... and
got sued. Courts ruled that lists of numbers, etc could not be copyrighted.
Nor could things that could only be expressed one way (like formulas). I think
that magic electro-incantation poems would fall under the
Hello Sailor!
2009/9/8 Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com:
At least the cesium ions don't have to travel through a maze of twisty
passages, all alike...
Oh Plugh!
_
With Windows Live, you
weijiaz...@sina.com wrote:
Hi all,
I got an HP 5071A,but it did not work.I think the Electron Multiplier
decay problem. I want to change Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube .
where to buy the Electron Multiplier and how to replace it? Thanks.
weijiazhen
If you are not a CBT production
In message a1816d2c8e3e1a65e67636c1a08cf08a.squir...@webmail.sonic.net, Rick
Karlquist writes:
J. Forster wrote:
Cesium is pretty reactive and could likely be stripped off chemically and
the CBT tube cleaned.
The HP/Agilent CBT experts claimed they didn't know how to do this, at least
for any
REALLY??
Both Cesium Chloride and Nitride are soluable 50 g/100 ml of water.
When Cs is exposed to air, it forms Cs Oxide, very quickly. That reacts
with water to make Cs Hydroxide. The Hydroxide would react w/ Hydrochloric
or Nitric acid to form the very soluable salts listed above.
-John
J. Forster wrote:
Cesium is pretty reactive and could likely be stripped off chemically and
the CBT tube cleaned.
The HP/Agilent CBT experts claimed they didn't know how to do this, at least
for any economically viable cost. They also said they have been
asked this question approximately 2
On 9/6/09 10:04 AM, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote:
Cesium is pretty reactive and could likely be stripped off chemically and
the CBT tube cleaned.
People can make simple triodes at home (with a lot of stuff). There were
guys 'rebuilding' CRTs in the late 50s at home. However a CBT or
In message 1399.12.6.201.168.1252259264.squir...@popacctsnew.quik.com, J. Fo
rster writes:
REALLY??
Both Cesium Chloride and Nitride are soluable 50 g/100 ml of water.
Sorry for not being explicit: Water is out of the question, dissolved
Cesium in water is very bad for pretty much any other
I'm not so sure. If you cut open the tube and then immediately rinsed the
insides with deionized water, then the acid etch, I doubt there'd be much
Cs left after 5 minutes. Now there could well be nooks, crannies, or cul
de sacs that are all but impossible to wash out. I can certainly believe
In message 1611.12.6.201.101.1252264616.squir...@popacctsnew.quik.com, J. Fo
rster writes:
I'm not so sure. If you cut open the tube and then immediately rinsed the
insides with deionized water, then the acid etch, I doubt there'd be much
Cs left after 5 minutes. Now there could well be nooks,
Cs reacts with oxigen and moisture in the air. In
an inert atmosphere of nitrogen or argon,
the tube can be safely opened. Lab digestor can both hold the atmosphere,
and also lead the Cs vapor out . Warming the tube
to 200°C will cause the Cs to sublime in few hours.
At 09:45
In message 1784.12.6.201.101.1252266696.squir...@popacctsnew.quik.com, J. Fo
rster writes:
But, the incident was great publicity for the HazMat folks as most people
lack either the technical knowlege or judgement to separate a real hazard
from a PR exercise.
Didn't the DoT publish a study a
Certainly possible, but there are so many idiotic regulations I'd think
total compliance was almost impossible.
I own a small electro-optics operation and some years ago the EPA (I
think) wanted to know what chemicals we had. Stupidly, I filled out the
form and listed Acetone and Alcohol. They
Great video of Rb and Cs reacting to water:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2134266654801392897#
I'll pass on opening one up.
I'll also agree that Hazmat folks and the EPA take things WAY too
far.
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time-nuts mailing list
All braniac experiments are aided with liberal amounts of explosives,
to rise their TV audience figures.
Rb and Cs do not explode like that.
At 23:50 6.9.2009, you wrote:
Great video of Rb and Cs reacting to water:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2134266654801392897#
Explosion actually must be above the water level. The fuel for explosion is
hydrogen gas generated in reaction of cesium with water.
Can't explode under water, if it explode at all.
At 01:18 7.9.2009, you wrote:
Even if done w/o explosive enhancement, the test was rigged by having
If there are not additional reactions going on to produce an O2/H2 mix
under water, the thing was faked. Assuming the O2 came from the air, there
was nowhere near enough H2 to cause an explosion like that. I've seen a 1
Kg block of Sodium thrown off a bridge into the River Charles and it's
NOTHING
Out of curiosity, what do the Datum tubes sell for? Are they any good?
-John
==
Of course, you'd hear the same thing if you asked the modern-day HP if
they
could refurbish an inkjet cartridge. :) Not the same thing, and not the
same company, I know... but still, HP had no
John Miles wrote:
Of course, you'd hear the same thing if you asked the modern-day HP if
they
could refurbish an inkjet cartridge. :) Not the same thing, and not the
same company, I know... but still, HP had no incentive to try very hard to
develop a reconditioning process, at least before
Out of curiosity, what do the Datum tubes sell for? Are they any good?
I've never seen a price list anywhere, just the brochure (
http://www.gigatest.net/datum/cesium_tubes.pdf ). No doubt the replacement
A9 and A11 modules increase the package price substantially, if they still
sell them at
: [time-nuts] HP 5071A Electron Multiplier of Cesium Beam Tube
John Miles wrote:
Of course, you'd hear the same thing if you asked the modern-day HP if
they
could refurbish an inkjet cartridge. :) Not the same thing, and not the
same company, I know... but still, HP had no incentive to try very
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