There is already a time scale that is extensively used that has no leap
seconds - GPS. Software could use that rather than UTC for its root time.
David
On 7/2/12 1:59 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message20120702025355.ga22...@puck.nether.net, Majdi S. Abbas writes:
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012
In message 4ff166e7.1060...@alum.dartmouth.org, David McGaw writes:
There is already a time scale that is extensively used that has no leap
seconds - GPS. Software could use that rather than UTC for its root time.
For all purposes GPS = TAI + constant, and it would be a lot easier
to get the
I'm not a huge fan of leap seconds for enterprise computing enviornments unless
there is a regulatory or other legal requirement for the system time to exactly
match legal time.
I'm quite happy that my own personal time server didn't support the leap second
(:
--
Hi,
From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
Testing software for correct handling of leap-seconds is a major undertaking
which very few people have the kit and skill to do.
A software that crashes/behaves badly when the time is updated is a bad
software.
Bye,
Jean-Louis
In message 6A49BBA9110943DEA397D3F7929F32E3@garadm, Jean-Louis Noel writes:
Hi,
From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
Testing software for correct handling of leap-seconds is a major undertaking
which very few people have the kit and skill to do.
A software that crashes/behaves badly
Hi,
From: Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
Yes, platitudes like that make for good sound-bites, but it doesn't
bring us any closer to a solution.
I am not considering timescale.
What happens to your system if you set the clock in the past by hand?
Mine continues working has it should be.
David McGaw n1...@alum.dartmouth.org wrote:
There is already a time scale that is extensively used that has no leap
seconds - GPS. Software could use that rather than UTC for its root time.
This just moves the problem. The software still has to use UTC when
talking to the rest of the world.
Considering how slowly the seconds accumulate, 99.99% of the population
wouldn't even notice that sunrise was what, 30 seconds off over the course
of a century?
The very few that do need to keep track of the rotations of the Earth
precisely could easily do so using a library routine that
On 7/1/12 10:54 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 4ff0f373.1020...@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:
Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger
one when they make a larger correction?
But isn't that exactly why it is a problem ?
News coverage of leapseconds are
In message 4ff19d3c.4050...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes:
which is an interesting thing.. if instead of DST (for which I think
there's little practical reason to have in the first place).. say you
just shifted the clock one minute earlier or later each day, gradually
moving it to the new
On 7/2/12 6:19 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 4ff19d3c.4050...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes:
which is an interesting thing.. if instead of DST (for which I think
there's little practical reason to have in the first place).. say you
just shifted the clock one minute earlier or later
I know this is hard for you Mike, try and pay attention.
Mike S wrote:
On 7/2/2012 8:36 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Why put everyone on Earth at risk when it isn't even close to necessary?
Are you arguing the Luddite POV? All non-trivial software has faults, so why
risk
using it?
On 7/2/2012 9:41 AM, Chuck Harris wrote:
I know this is hard for you Mike, try and pay attention.
Are insults really a necessary part of your argument?
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On 7/2/2012 9:28 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
but if we ARE going to establish artificial connections between wall
clock time (work hours, store opening times, bar closing times, etc.)
and the sun, why not do it gradually.
Time and the sun are certainly a _natural_ connection, not an artificial
one.
On 7/2/12 7:08 AM, Mike S wrote:
On 7/2/2012 9:28 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
but if we ARE going to establish artificial connections between wall
clock time (work hours, store opening times, bar closing times, etc.)
and the sun, why not do it gradually.
Time and the sun are certainly a _natural_
Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
which is an interesting thing.. if instead of DST (for which I think there's
little practical reason to have in the first place).. say you just shifted the
clock one minute earlier or later each day, gradually moving it to the new
alignment relative to
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18672173
Rob
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tony Finch
Sent: 02 July 2012 16:26
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay
Hi Mike,
Clearly when you called me a Luddite you were passing me a
complement?
For whatever reason, you have taken it upon yourself to behave
like an ass towards me whenever I post on this group. Don't be
surprised when I respond to your impolite behavior.
The argument is simple. There is
On 7/2/2012 1:04 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:
Clearly when you called me a Luddite you were passing me a
complement?
I called you no such thing. I asked if you were arguing from that point
of view, since you were arguing against using technology because of the
risk. That seems to be characterized
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Just make everybody use TAI and make T-O-D alignment a cultural
thing rather than a numerological superstition?
No. Not every body - every computer.
Let the fragile, programmer-bound computer systems, like transaction
time-stamping for high frequency stock trading, use
Are insults really a necessary part of your argument?
Are you arguing the Luddite POV?
I was text chatting with my wife when I mentioned how hot it was here in
Kunar Province. She told me that lots of places are having a heat wave.
I guess the temps are affecting some people.
So what did I do
As an astronomer I've been a supporter of the current leap second situation
and have not really liked the idea of changing.
However, after yesterday I'm thinking of changing my mind.
I quite enjoyed having to go through and change all my clocks (including a
pendulum clock - now that's a pain!),
Hi Jim:
Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger one when they
make a larger correction?
That's assuming that the leap second would be replaced by the leap minute or something similar on a larger time scale so
that the the time had some relationship to the Earth's
On 7/1/2012 8:24 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
Thoughts?
UTC was specifically defined/specified to closely track the other UTx
timescales. Breaking that link penalizes those who use it as it was
intended. If being close to solar time isn't important for some
applications, and they don't want
With a large correction then maybe people would take it more seriously like
they did Y2K?
On 2 July 2012 11:03, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote:
Hi Jim:
Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger one when
they make a larger correction?
That's assuming that the
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 10:24:33AM +1000, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
As an astronomer I've been a supporter of the current leap second situation
and have not really liked the idea of changing.
As someone who still owns a sextant and almanac, I concur. :)
However, after yesterday I'm
Completely agree with Brooke and Mike S. This is not the first time that
software developers have dropped the ball and later complained that the
problem is too difficult.
In my experience, nobody assigned time or resources to the problem.
What better group than this to come up with a definitive
I think a small poke at the system, like inserting a leap second, would save
lives.
If a system has degraded to a house of cards, the sooner someone pokes it the
better.
It may also point to those responsible who are not handling their responsibilty
of providing
bullet proof code. If you can
In message 4ff0f373.1020...@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes:
Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger
one when they make a larger correction?
But isn't that exactly why it is a problem ?
News coverage of leapseconds are mostly along the lines of What
can you do with an
In message 20120702025355.ga22...@puck.nether.net, Majdi S. Abbas writes:
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 10:24:33AM +1000, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
Understand that yesterday's situation was specific to one
operating system, which accepted a patch to its kernel a few years ago
that was never really
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