Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
The Hadamard processing (Dev, ModDev or Tot) gives another B term, which
considering that B is fairly small gives a drift-gain. As the series
progresses, the drift derivate dies away faster (1/t^2 rather than 1/t) than
for
Steve Rooke wrote:
Magnus,
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
I found a nice little graphical tool that let's you pull data in, match
against one of several models and then see the produced result. Nice tool to
get started. Can't recall the name right now.
I'd be very
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Steve Rooke wrote:
Magnus,
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
I found a nice little graphical tool that let's you pull data in, match
against one of several models and then see the produced result. Nice tool
to
get
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
For the quality of xtals and sources that some
time-nuts are testing, this is unlikely to be a huge problem but for
lesser sources this is a real factor hence my suggestion for the use
of Hadamard Deviation.
Having done the exercise on a
Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
For the quality of xtals and sources that some
time-nuts are testing, this is unlikely to be a huge problem but for
lesser sources this is a real factor hence my suggestion for the use
of Hadamard Deviation.
Having done
2009/8/6 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
...
Well, stability over time is what exacly is displayed in a
tau-sigma-diagram
of an oscillator. Since only a few words before he is saying that he is
NOT
intersted into Allan Deviation plots, then he is perhaps
Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/6 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
...
Well, stability over time is what exacly is displayed in a
tau-sigma-diagram
of an oscillator. Since only a few words before he is saying that he is
NOT
intersted into Allan Deviation plots,
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/6 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
...
Well, stability over time is what exacly is displayed in a
tau-sigma-diagram
of an oscillator. Since only a few words before he is
Magnus Danielson wrote:
Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/6 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
...
Well, stability over time is what exacly is displayed in a
tau-sigma-diagram
of an oscillator. Since only a few words before he is saying that he is
NOT
intersted into
Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Steve Rooke wrote:
2009/8/6 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
...
Well, stability over time is what exacly is displayed in a
tau-sigma-diagram
of an oscillator. Since only a few words
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
The Hadamard processing (Dev, ModDev or Tot) gives another B term, which
considering that B is fairly small gives a drift-gain. As the series
progresses, the drift derivate dies away faster (1/t^2 rather than 1/t) than
for Allan processing
Magnus,
2009/8/7 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
I found a nice little graphical tool that let's you pull data in, match
against one of several models and then see the produced result. Nice tool to
get started. Can't recall the name right now.
I'd be very interested in that tool
...@bsdimp.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com; james.p@jpl.nasa.gov
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
In message:
ece7a93bd093e1439c20020fbe87c47feb74c94...@altphyembevsp20.res.ad.jpl
Lux, Jim (337C) james.p@jpl.nasa.gov writes
- Original Message - From: M. Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com; james.p@jpl.nasa.gov
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
In message:
ece7a93bd093e1439c20020fbe87c47feb74c94...@altphyembevsp20.res.ad.jpl
Ulrich Bangert wrote:
Warren and John,
my point has not been to judge who has to be interested in what. My point
has only been to use the right terms for it. Let me give an example: John
uses the term
...but I am more concerned with ... and stability over time
Well, stability over time is
ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
Thanks. I will remember that. Bert
The packaging, temperature and performance distinctions seems never to
have been coordinated, except for some selection cases where it became
important. This naturally helps to confuse things... still to this day.
Cheers,
Magnus
-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von John Green
Gesendet: Montag, 3. August 2009 21:36
An: time-nuts@febo.com
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Part of using this method is that, at some point, the DUT
must be set to the same frequency as the reference. (As close
**
- Original Message -
From: Ulrich Bangert df...@ulrich-bangert.de
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Warren and John,
my point has not been
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message abec162c0908030758y62c9dffdq65f8341cd2bb8...@mail.gmail.com, John
Green writes:
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is that it is the
most accurate method. However, it seems pretty difficult to obtain that
accuracy.
Check the
Rex wrote:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message
abec162c0908030758y62c9dffdq65f8341cd2bb8...@mail.gmail.com, John
Green writes:
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is that it
is the
most accurate method. However, it seems pretty difficult to obtain that
accuracy.
Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Rex wrote:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message
abec162c0908030758y62c9dffdq65f8341cd2bb8...@mail.gmail.com, John
Green writes:
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is that it
is the
most accurate method. However, it seems pretty
Bruce,
Thanks, that looks interesting. I found the manual here...
http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/ttm/product-
manual/5120A-MAN.pdf
But I haven't figured out where to get a list of related patents. Can
anyone provide key number(s) or point me to a list?
Lux, Jim (337C) wrote:
Bruce,
Thanks, that looks interesting. I found the manual here...
http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/ttm/product-
manual/5120A-MAN.pdf
But I haven't figured out where to get a list of related patents. Can
anyone provide key number(s) or point me to a
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Lux, Jim (337C)
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:01 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Bruce
Lux, Jim (337C) wrote:
Bruce,
Thanks, that looks interesting. I found the manual here...
http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/ttm/product-
manual/5120A-MAN.pdf
But I haven't figured out where to get a list of related patents. Can
anyone provide key number(s) or point me to a
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
http
Lux, Jim (337C) wrote:
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:06 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing
Rex,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 08/04/2009 07:35:51 PM:
From:
Rex r...@sonic.net
To:
Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Date:
08/04/2009 07:43 PM
Subject:
Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Sent by:
time
Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
Rex,
time-nuts-boun...@febo.com wrote on 08/04/2009 07:35:51 PM:
From:
Rex r...@sonic.net
To:
Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Date:
08/04/2009 07:43 PM
Subject:
Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
http://www.uspto.gov/
patent search
quick
symmetricom in Assignee Name
Actually Timing Solutions corp would be better choice of assignee as
they developed the concept until swallowed/absorbed by Symmetricom
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:45:45 -0400, Joseph M Gwinn wrote:
I dug this up a year or two ago. It was not easy to find, but the main
patent is US Patent 7,227,346 to Solbrig. The patent text may be obtained
from www.pat2pdf.org or Google Patents.
When you need US Patents as PDF look also to this
Or, use the http://www.uspto.gov/ site.. Paid for by the taxpayer, TIFF images
of the patents, etc. You can use the AlternaTIFF plug in to view (the
instructions are on the website). A decent search engine too.
On 8/4/09 7:30 PM, Arnold Tibus arnold.ti...@gmx.de wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009
In message:
ece7a93bd093e1439c20020fbe87c47feb74c94...@altphyembevsp20.res.ad.jpl
Lux, Jim (337C) james.p@jpl.nasa.gov writes:
:
: Bruce,
:
: Thanks, that looks interesting. I found the manual here...
: http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/support/ttm/product-
:
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is that it is the
most accurate method. However, it seems pretty difficult to obtain that
accuracy. I do have some DBMs with IF response down to DC. I don't have a
10811 but do have a pretty good oscillator to use for the offset. The
John Green
Gesendet: Montag, 3. August 2009 16:59
An: time-nuts@febo.com
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is
that it is the most accurate method. However, it seems pretty
difficult to obtain that accuracy. I
In message abec162c0908030758y62c9dffdq65f8341cd2bb8...@mail.gmail.com, John
Green writes:
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is that it is the
most accurate method. However, it seems pretty difficult to obtain that
accuracy.
Check the description and papers about
Rather than using a scope in Y-T mode (with triggered sweep) I find that
using a scope in X-Y mode makes it much easier to compare frequencies.
Doing this, you essentially get a synchroscope display. If the two
waveforms are sinusoidal, the trace will be a circle, the rate of
revolution is the
Green wpxs...@gmail.com
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
I have studied the dual mixer approach and the consensus is that it is the
most accurate method. However, it seems pretty difficult to obtain
-Ursprungliche Nachricht-
Von: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Im Auftrag von John Green
Gesendet: Montag, 3. August 2009 16:59
An: time-nuts@febo.com
Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
I have studied the dual mixer approach
ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
The only component
I have trouble buying is the 74 AC 112. Newark has them, but you have to
buy thousands. Material cost based on part searches is below $ 200.00.
Digikey has them in stock for 68 cents US.
dr
___
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com
Sent: 03 August 2009 17:37
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Cc: cdel...@juno.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
The Dual Mixer seems to be for a long time a hot topic and I can see why. I
am also intrigued
-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com
Sent: 03 August 2009 17:37
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Cc: cdel...@juno.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
The Dual Mixer seems to be for a long time a hot topic and I can see why. I
am also intrigued by it and after
, August 03, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
John,
I see you in the danger to confuse accuracy and stabilility. Accuracy of
an oscillator and stability of an oscillator are (albeit the fact that our
wishful thinking usually expects both from a good oscillator
with the string 74AC112
in this case.
Keith
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of ewkeh...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:46 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Thanks
: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
I like to use a site called www.findchips.com It searches 21 US
distributors for parts. It's billed as a finder of ICs, but it works well
for anything electronic with a part number. No advertising, no frills, just
gets the job done.
Unfortunately
Part of using this method is that, at some point, the DUT must be set to the
same frequency as the reference. (As close as I can get it anyway.) So,
accuracy and stability are addressed separately. For TCXOs, set to frequency
and watch the drift over time. I have an environmental chamber so I can
You can also try octopart.com
Scott
Keith Payea wrote:
I like to use a site called www.findchips.com It searches 21 US
distributors for parts. It's billed as a finder of ICs, but it works well
for anything electronic with a part number. No advertising, no frills, just
gets the job done.
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:36:40 EDT
From: ewkeh...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
snip
My goal is to keep the total material cost below $200. I have received
valuable suggestions from Bruce, some I am incorporating as long as it
does
stay
Thanks Dave. I am looking for 112N Bert
In a message dated 8/3/2009 7:25:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
masond...@comcast.net writes:
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:36:40 EDT
From: ewkeh...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
snip
My goal is to keep the total
, August 03, 2009 11:14 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Rather than using a scope in Y-T mode (with triggered sweep) I find that
using a scope in X-Y mode makes it much easier to compare frequencies. Doing
this, you
-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:14 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Method for comparing oscillators
Rather than using a scope in Y-T mode (with triggered sweep) I
Bert,
It is the same part! The RCA number ends in E, not N, for a DIP.
At 8:58 PM -0400 8/3/09, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Dave. I am looking for 112N Bert
Digikey stocks the 74AC112E, and is available in unit quantities for $0.68
USD each. Price breaks for larger quantities.
Thanks. I will remember that. Bert
In a message dated 8/3/2009 10:14:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dfor...@dakotacom.net writes:
Bert,
It is the same part! The RCA number ends in E, not N, for a DIP.
At 8:58 PM -0400 8/3/09, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
Thanks Dave. I am looking for 112N
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