Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi > On Jan 27, 2016, at 7:56 PM, time...@metachaos.net wrote: > > Bob, et. al., > > Thanks for the advice and information. That has helped a lot in closing some > holes and gives me a lot to consider. I am continuing to research and learn, > this is not a short term project as in building it

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi > On Jan 27, 2016, at 11:08 AM, Jim Harman wrote: > > I am a relative newbie here myself, but at the risk of starting a > firestorm, I would take issue with some of what Bob says below. See > comments interspersed. > > > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:43 AM, Bob Camp

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi (a few minor additions ..) > On Jan 27, 2016, at 4:04 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > Moin, > > As no-one seems to want to answer the GPS related questions > > > On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:04:10 -0500 > time...@metachaos.net wrote: > >> >> Paradoxically, I have no

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

You will find the following discussion of dB useful http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-volt.htm dB references are not just for RF it is/was used extensively in audio work as well where it was often related to 600ohm load vs the 50ohm RF load As for DMM I have a Tektronix DM501A and a

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

That hits the nail on the head. Mathematicians (the OP mentioned he was one) learned long ago that it's easier to add and subtract than to multiply and divide. Jeremy On Wednesday, January 27, 2016, Jim Harman wrote: > Another benefit of using dB vs Watts or Volts is that

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 7:04 PM, wrote: > I am trying to learn more about electronics and start doing > hardware projects. I have never been into model building or anything > similar, > so my construction skills are lacking. I understand a lot of things in > theory, > but

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

I am a relative newbie here myself, but at the risk of starting a firestorm, I would take issue with some of what Bob says below. See comments interspersed. On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:43 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > Ok, so let me answer the questions you *should* have asked: > >

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Bill, Thanks. Your reply was very informative. I understand the reason for using decibels for the applications you mention. However, I did not consider the output level of a non-RF signal to be in that category. You are right, I have never seen a DMM reading in decimals. I know that digital

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Jeremy, While you are right, "real" mathematicians don't have anything to do with numbers! Its all functions, sets, maps, groups, rings and formal logic (very tongue in cheek here, of course). All very abstract. I also understand about the "chain of elements", but my assumption was that it was a

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Moin, As no-one seems to want to answer the GPS related questions On Tue, 26 Jan 2016 19:04:10 -0500 time...@metachaos.net wrote: > > Paradoxically, I have no interest in time. As in time of day, day of week, > etc.. I have never had a job where I got to work on time. My philosophy has >

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Bob, et. al., Thanks for the advice and information. That has helped a lot in closing some holes and gives me a lot to consider. I am continuing to research and learn, this is not a short term project as in building it this week or month. I need to learn and work up to the full project. I will

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi Mike, The element that you are missing is the impedance. When you look at the common formula it refers to a ratio of power or voltage and the impedance is left out with the understanding that the impedance is equal for each power or voltage in the ratio. The actual formula (for power)

[time-nuts] Newbie questions

Ha! I finally answered one of my questions that has been bugging me! I was taking dBm as the definition of voltage - which it is, but only round-about. The hidden variable is the assumed impedance of 50 ohms where 1mW is the zero point for power. That is also why I wasn't getting consistent

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi, MIke. I used the university CDC6400/6600 supercomputer while in engineering school with punch cards or Teletypes and was familiar with S-100 vintage equipment. Somewhere I may still have a MIcrosoft BASIC pre MS-DOS (HDOS or CP/M) looseleaf manual. I haven't retired yet, but have been an

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi Ok, so let me answer the questions you *should* have asked: (They are in no particular order. Number 3 probably should come first) 1) Is the gear I have enough to do this project? No, you will need some sort of frequency / time standard. An atomic clock of some sort is pretty much a

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Another benefit of using dB vs Watts or Volts is that systems often consist of a chain of elements with gains and losses. Working with gains and losses in dB lets you calculate the signal level at any point along the way and the system gain by adding and subtracting rather than multiplying and

[time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi, I am a newbie to this list. I have downloaded the archives and read about 5,000 of the past messages. I plan on building my own GPSDO, probably using a LEA-6T (but LEA-7T or LEA-M8T would be good if I can find one affordably). I have a MTI 260 on order (although it could wind up being a 261

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

, January 05, 2010 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Tom Duckworth wrote: Jim, We use a benchmark 1 ns per foot of coax (RG-59). This sounds fast. The normal taxiometer is at 66% of speed of ligth in vaccum, which for 1 ns is about 3 dm so for the RG-59 that would be about 2 dm

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Tom Duckworth Sent: 06 January 2010 02:23 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Jim, We use a benchmark 1 ns per foot of coax (RG-59). You could measure the delay by using a resistive

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi The 5335 is a pretty nice counter, you can use the math functions to get just about anything you want displayed. One simple example is to just subtract 10 MHz from the count and display the difference. The problem you run into is overflow in the counter chip. Somewhere around 100 seconds

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Tom Duckworth wrote: Magnus, We've made this measurement using a 20 ps time interval counter and a GPS disciplined Rubidium frequency standard as the time base; making many concurrent measurements with no dead time between. The resultant measurement was very close to the 1 ns/ft benchmark

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Bob Camp wrote: Hi The 5335 is a pretty nice counter, you can use the math functions to get just about anything you want displayed. One simple example is to just subtract 10 MHz from the count and display the difference. Indeed. The 5335 can display 12 digits but does not overflow the

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:28 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Bob Camp wrote: Hi The 5335 is a pretty nice counter, you can use the math functions to get just about anything you

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

, January 06, 2010 8:17 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Tom Duckworth wrote: Magnus, We've made this measurement using a 20 ps time interval counter and a GPS disciplined Rubidium frequency standard as the time base; making

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi! Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ahhh, that jogs a few of the tired old brain cells You can run the gate off of the GPIB input to get all kinds of silly long gates. Then you start to get into the cpu overflow issues. Since it's a MSB overflow you can usually clean it up in software *if* you know

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:10 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Hi! Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ahhh, that jogs a few of the tired old brain

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Bob Camp wrote: Hi I agree with you on the spec sheet and the fact that the cpu *should* extend the data. My observation was that it didn't do it if the input frequency was high enough. I tried it on a couple dozen counters built over a period of several years. That would imply that only the

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Magnus Danielson Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:41 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Bob Camp wrote: Hi I agree with you on the spec sheet and the fact that the cpu *should* extend the data. My

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

On the 5334, you can get 11 digits resolution on the LED display by subtracting 10MHz from the measurement (-10MHz offset), and setting the mesurement intervall to 99 seconds. Both sources need to be 10MHz of course for this to work. On the 5335 I seem to get one digit less with the same

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Bob Camp wrote: Hi I have a pile of 5334's in the shed. I'm getting the itch to pull them out and see what they can do. I've always looked down on them a bit, since 5335's were always available for what I needed to do. I've always liked the 5334s for both general bench use, and as TICs where

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Hi Another thing in their favor is that they are smaller than a 5360, 5345, or a 5335. You can stack more of them in the same space Bob On Jan 6, 2010, at 1:39 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Bob Camp wrote: Hi I have a pile of 5334's in the shed. I'm getting the itch to pull them out

[time-nuts] Newbie questions

I am new to the list (although lurking now a while) and also new to the more precise species of frequency and time measurement. I have recently powered up an LPro and a Thunderbolt, both of which appear to be working by the book. Connecting the TBolt to my scope external sync and the LPro

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:17 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Newbie questions I am new to the list (although lurking now a while) and also new to the more precise species of frequency and time measurement. I have recently powered up an LPro

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Interesting So a 100% error (1e2) would then be 40.4GHz and not 80GHz Sounds like some new math the cost of living department came up with. ws ** Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz Tue Jan 5 20:25:05 UTC 2010 One should of course be aware that the number notation used is

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

1. Can someone tell me the meaning and significance of the Timing Outputs numbers in the lower left corner of the TBolt monitor window? (Mine right now is showing plus 3.75 ns and plus 0.01 ppb). The TBolt manual does not describe these, although on one page it lists them as estimates of

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

notation in the US. What do you use? Tom Tom Duckworth tomd...@comcast.net - Original Message - From: WarrenS warrensjmail-...@yahoo.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Tom Duckworth said the following on 01/05/2010 09:10 PM: Warren- No, a 100% error would be 40 GHz. Where did you get 40.4 GHz? That would be 101% and of course 80 GHz is 200%. Bruce- Of course you are right about the + symbol for 40.000 000 003 GHz (+7.5 parts in 1E-11) but what would you

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Message - From: Jim Mandaville z...@dakotacom.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:17 AM Subject: [time-nuts] Newbie questions I am new to the list (although lurking now a while) and also new to the more precise

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

-nuts] Newbie questions Interesting So a 100% error (1e2) would then be 40.4GHz and not 80GHz Sounds like some new math the cost of living department came up with. ws ** Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz Tue Jan 5 20:25:05 UTC 2010 One should of course be aware

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Run away while you still can? :-P -- john, KE5FX Nope, not ready to run away by any means, John! And I do thank you much for your time in these helpful comments. Thanks also to Tom for that somewhat different scope method. I was indeed wondering about that short-term stability issue

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

Nope, not ready to run away by any means, John! And I do thank you much for your time in these helpful comments. Thanks also to Tom for that somewhat different scope method. I was indeed wondering about that short-term stability issue when making quick point-in-time frequency

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org said: This sounds fast. The normal taxiometer is at 66% of speed of ligth in vaccum, which for 1 ns is about 3 dm so for the RG-59 that would be about 2 dm. Some cables reach 78%, but RG-58 and RG-59 is down at normal 66%. Sounds right. My rule to thumb for

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

z...@dakotacom.net said: 4. Does anyone know a way to force the 5335A counter to display another decimal place in frequency measurements? I am getting to 0.001 Hz by using the mean of 100 counts function on the counter, but I think the counter has at least one more digit available which I

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions

:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions Tom Duckworth wrote: Jim, We use a benchmark 1 ns per foot of coax (RG-59). This sounds fast. The normal taxiometer is at 66% of speed of ligth in vaccum, which for 1 ns is about 3 dm so for the RG-59 that would be about 2 dm. Some cables

[time-nuts] newbie questions

Hi, My name's Jason, and I must admit to being drawn in by the fascinating article on Wired. ( if that makes me a dork, so be it!) As a kid I thought it was neat to try and set my watches and clocks to WWV from the cheap, crummy 1960's JC-penny all-band receiver , but was always annoyed that the

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions, UTC vs. Greenwich

Lots of discussion here: http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/timescales.html Alan Kruse wrote: Hi, What is the difference between Universal Coordinated Time (UTC) and Greenwich Mean Time? Thanks, Al ___ time-nuts mailing list

Re: [time-nuts] Newbie questions, UTC vs. Greenwich

Subject: [time-nuts] Newbie questions, UTC vs. Greenwich Hi, What is the difference between Universal Coordinated Time (UTC) and Greenwich Mean Time? Thanks, Al ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman