On 01/24/2013 07:12 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
If you take the position that a primary standard is only functional if it's
under the ideal nominal conditions - you have no primary standards at all.
They all require corrections of one sort or the other. Having a system with
no standards is not a
On 1/23/2013 3:34 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 01/23/2013 02:32 AM, Mike S wrote:
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions for which the second is defined? Since most metric units
are derived from the definition of the second, are any primary
On 1/24/13 7:24 AM, Mike S wrote:
On 1/23/2013 3:34 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 01/23/2013 02:32 AM, Mike S wrote:
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions for which the second is defined? Since most metric units
are derived from the definition
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
On 1/24/13 7:24 AM, Mike S wrote:
On 1/23/2013 3:34 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 01/23/2013 02:32 AM, Mike S wrote:
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions for which the second is defined? Since
On 1/24/2013 10:38 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 1/24/13 7:24 AM, Mike S wrote:
On 1/23/2013 3:34 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 01/23/2013 02:32 AM, Mike S wrote:
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions for which the second is defined? Since most metric
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
On 1/24/2013 10:38 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
On 1/24/13 7:24 AM, Mike S wrote:
On 1/23/2013 3:34 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote:
On 01/23/2013 02:32 AM, Mike S wrote:
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions
Hi,
It would seem to me that since the second is(was) defined
relative to a specific number of resonances of a C-beam at a
specific gravity, and inertial frame of reference, that any
deviation from the defined value is an indication of not
the error in your C-beam, but rather the error due to
.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:56 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
Hi,
It would seem to me
Hi Bob,
It seems to me that all of our current primary standards
are only functional under the ideal nominal conditions.
Which ones aren't?
-Chuck Harris
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
If you take the position that a primary standard is only functional if it's
under the ideal nominal conditions - you
. That of course
doesn't mean there are none...
Bob
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chuck Harris
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:40 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One
On 01/23/2013 02:32 AM, Mike S wrote:
On 1/22/2013 3:30 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
But can the number and type of atoms in such a standard be counted?
Otherwise its not a primary standard.
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions for which the
Isn't it defined for zero sea-level, that is standard acceleration?
How do you define sea level?
Daniel Kleppner's Time Too Good to Be True in
Physics Today, March 2006
pointed out that the time-geeks will soon own the definition of sea level.
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
Isn't it defined for zero sea-level, that is standard acceleration?
How do you define sea level?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGM96
http://earth-info.nga.mil/GandG/wgs84/gravitymod/egm2008/egm08_wgs84.html
Daniel Kleppner's Time Too Good to Be True in
Physics Today, March 2006
pointed
Hi
As with the one kg resonator, you need to mount the bar *somehow*.
The idea is generally to suspend the resonator at a point that
least affects the resonance (a dead spot). With a large bar, making
it manually adjustable is practical. Not so much with a smaller part.
Bob
Il 2013-01-23
Hi
You want to mount the crystal at a point that is not moving (much) while the
crystal is in resonance. For a normal AT, that's out at the edge. For most bar
cuts, yes you mount it at a node. Without knowing the mode that the bar is
resonating in, it's a bit hard to guess where the nodes will
On 1/22/2013 8:25 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
Interestingly, this experiment may also become the first time we
ever needed to know PI better than 355/113 outside abstract
mathematics.
Good thing this is easy now. It took a long TIME, but I ran PI out to
80 billion points using a
Il 2013-01-23 13:39 Bob Camp ha scritto:
the mode that the bar is resonating in, it's a bit hard to guess
where
the nodes will be. Just looking at the bar, you wouldn't *guess* that
the end points would be nodes...
Bob
Sorry Bob I didnt understand last part.
You say that the end faces are
Hi
Not having a bar sitting here to play with, it's hard to tell how the bar is
mounted. If it's mounted by the points on the disks, then they must be
non-moving nodal points. If that's what they are, I'm a bit surprised that the
bar has nodes at the ends.
Bob
On Jan 23, 2013, at 6:57 PM,
Hi
There's a paper in the February IEEE UFFC transactions proposing that the SI
standard of mass be replaced with a 1 KG quartz resonator. It's by Vig and
Howe, so a copy should be freely available soon. It currently shows up as
submitted on the NIST site.
The short version:
The SI
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In message 7cc93b1acc5743a3b5536dbf798b7...@vectron.com, Bob Camp writes:
There's a paper in the February IEEE UFFC transactions proposing that the SI
standard of mass be replaced with a 1 KG quartz resonator.
Has anybody ever studied if
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
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In message7cc93b1acc5743a3b5536dbf798b7...@vectron.com, Bob Camp writes:
There's a paper in the February IEEE UFFC transactions proposing that the SI
standard of mass be replaced with a 1 KG quartz resonator.
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:39 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Anybody out there with a pre-WWII GR 100KHz bar standard might find a
whole
new customer base.
I'm absolutely sure that TVB has one :-)
Don
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind.
De
measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
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In message7cc93b1acc5743a3b5536dbf798b7...@vectron.com, Bob Camp
writes:
There's a paper in the February IEEE UFFC transactions proposing
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Bruce Griffiths
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:30 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
But can the number and type
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In message 50fef6db.4020...@xtra.co.nz, Bruce Griffiths writes:
But can the number and type of atoms in such a standard be counted?
Otherwise its not a primary standard.
Yes.
If you arrange them into a perfect sphere, you can measure the
The isotope-separation is really
a killer.
How about crystal boundaries? Certainly to count atoms, and to resonate
properly, should be a single crystal. In that case, not a sphere but
hexagonal...Maybe a 1 kg sc-cut?
--
Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
Yes, Don, those old quartz bars are rare and amazing:
http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr676b-50kc/
http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr1190a/
The inside joke is that recently Don gave me a new one, also GenRad, that I
hope to photograph and measure soon.
Thanks,
/tvb (iPhone4)
On Jan 22, 2013, at
Hi
I think we are getting two things crossed up here.
The sphere approach is pure silicon. It's called Avogadro and it's quite far
along. It does not involve Time Nutty stuff.
The quartz resonator is simply an idea at this point. There does not appear to
be a defined shape for the resonator
Hi
In addition to the two you show in the pictures, there was another one. It
lived in a pine box oven. The oven and associated stuff took up at least a
full rack. I really wish I'd bought the only one I've ever seen…
Bob
On Jan 22, 2013, at 5:19 PM, Tom Van Baak (lab) t...@leapsecond.com
Il 2013-01-22 23:19 Tom Van Baak (lab) ha scritto:
Yes, Don, those old quartz bars are rare and amazing:
http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr676b-50kc/
http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr1190a/
What is the function of the (metal?) disc
plates near the two ends of the rods?
Their position seem to be
Hi
As with the one kg resonator, you need to mount the bar *somehow*. The idea is
generally to suspend the resonator at a point that least affects the resonance
(a dead spot). With a large bar, making it manually adjustable is practical.
Not so much with a smaller part.
Bob
On Jan 22, 2013,
and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] One Kg Quartz Resonator
Il 2013-01-22 23:19 Tom Van Baak (lab) ha scritto:
Yes, Don, those old quartz bars are rare and amazing:
http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr676b-50kc/
http://leapsecond.com/museum/gr1190a/
What
On 1/22/2013 3:30 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
But can the number and type of atoms in such a standard be counted?
Otherwise its not a primary standard.
Can you have a Cs under zero acceleration and at zero temperature, the
only conditions for which the second is defined? Since most metric
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