Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-13 Thread Azelio Boriani
The problem with sampling 'scopes is that you cannot get a continuos samples stream. I think that the TimePod correlates continuously in time. On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Stefan Heinzmann stefan_heinzm...@gmx.de wrote: Marek Peca wrote: My point was, that DSO is basically an ADC.

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-13 Thread Stefan Heinzmann
Azelio Boriani wrote: The problem with sampling 'scopes is that you cannot get a continuos samples stream. I think that the TimePod correlates continuously in time. Does that matter for phase noise measurements? Doesn't that just make the measurement take correspondingly more time? Cheers

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-13 Thread Azelio Boriani
Ah, well, now I'm not able to compute what impact can have this windowing of the samples... maybe that just concatenating the buffers' content is perfectly equivalent to have a continuous stream of samples (for noise measurement only, of course). If the desired noise band can fit into one buffer

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-13 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 06/13/2013 04:26 PM, Stefan Heinzmann wrote: Azelio Boriani wrote: The problem with sampling 'scopes is that you cannot get a continuos samples stream. I think that the TimePod correlates continuously in time. Does that matter for phase noise measurements? Doesn't that just make the

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-13 Thread Stefan Heinzmann
Magnus Danielson wrote: On 06/13/2013 04:26 PM, Stefan Heinzmann wrote: Azelio Boriani wrote: The problem with sampling 'scopes is that you cannot get a continuos samples stream. I think that the TimePod correlates continuously in time. Does that matter for phase noise measurements? Doesn't

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-13 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 06/13/2013 11:02 PM, Stefan Heinzmann wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: On 06/13/2013 04:26 PM, Stefan Heinzmann wrote: Azelio Boriani wrote: The problem with sampling 'scopes is that you cannot get a continuos samples stream. I think that the TimePod correlates continuously in time. Does

[time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Stefan Heinzmann
Hi all, given that digital scopes have a multichannel ADC for acquisition, which is similar to what a cross-correlating phase noise measurement instrument has, it occurred to me that phase noise measurement might also be possible with a standard digital scope and some post-processing

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Marek Peca
Hello, given that digital scopes have a multichannel ADC for acquisition, which is similar to what a cross-correlating phase noise measurement instrument has, it occurred to me that phase noise measurement might also be possible with a standard digital scope and some post-processing software.

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Didier Juges
I would think that considering the amount of time it takes to get the data out of the scope (particularly on the cheap scopes) would be a major impediment to that method regardless of the cleanliness of whatever data you eventually get, since you will only be able to analyze a small fraction of

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Stefan Heinzmann
Marek Peca wrote: Hello, given that digital scopes have a multichannel ADC for acquisition, which is similar to what a cross-correlating phase noise measurement instrument has, it occurred to me that phase noise measurement might also be possible with a standard digital scope and some

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Marek Peca
(..) I have tried it with a very cheap one, Rigol 2-channel, originally 50MHz, reflashed to 100MHz. 2 signals, refmeasured, into Ch1, Ch2. Waveforms (2x500Msps) acquired, sinc() interpolated. Results: short-term single-shot jitter around 100ps RMS. Long-term was of no interest for my purpose

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Stefan Heinzmann
Marek Peca wrote: (..) I have tried it with a very cheap one, Rigol 2-channel, originally 50MHz, reflashed to 100MHz. 2 signals, refmeasured, into Ch1, Ch2. Waveforms (2x500Msps) acquired, sinc() interpolated. Results: short-term single-shot jitter around 100ps RMS. Long-term was of no

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Marek Peca
My point was, that DSO is basically an ADC. Therefore, there is some amount of noise, nonlinearity and drift, limiting the jitter measurement. Do you think any method can dig more information from given data than sinc() interpolation and zero-crossing computation? The cross-spectrum averaging

Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement with a scope

2013-06-12 Thread Chris Albertson
My dim memory says there is some analog way to multiply the phase noise. What does that? Then it might be easier to measure. On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Marek Peca ma...@duch.cz wrote: My point was, that DSO is basically an ADC. Therefore, there is some amount of noise, nonlinearity