Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Tom, Consider that the RTC clock will be operating of a battery when no power is applied. For the power used, it's actually quite impressively good. Then, the other clocks is selected for various other properties, but even with quality brands, we would consider them very cheap and of dubious

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Hal Murray
thol...@woh.rr.com said: > Thanks to Chris, Magnus, and Trent for clearing things up. Never would have > expected going to the effort of putting in a cheap clock, only to use it very > little. The frequency of your clock determines the granularity of a simple/quick read-the-clock operation.

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Tom Holmes
Thanks to Chris, Magnus, and Trent for clearing things up. Never would have expected going to the effort of putting in a cheap clock, only to use it very little. Who knows what evil lurks in the minds of engineers? And I am one! Tom Holmes, N8ZM -Original Message- From: time-nuts On

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Trent Piepho
On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 6:26 AM Tom Holmes wrote: > > Am I missing something or maybe I don't understand > the situation , but I am under the impression that > the RTC has it's own battery and crystal unrelated > to the processor clock. Seems like in that case, > the 24 MHz won't have any effect

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Hal Murray
> I have the same thought of you, but when I tried in an ARM Single Board > Computer (Asus Tinkerboard) with the same scenario (external clock and no > syncing in NTP) the same results were achieved. Not the same drift rate, but > the same behavior. This SBC dont uses TSC for timekeeping, but

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Tom Van Baak writes: >If you do your kernel timekeeping in integers and modulus arithmetic you >are essentially doing cycle counting and the kernel will keep perfect >time relative to the external oscillator. So that should be the goal. >Not e-6, not e-9, not e-10, but perfect cycle

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Tom, The RTC typically has a wristwatch type 32,768 kHz resonator. This is independent to the oscillator setting bus and processor speed. They have common factors in temperature and other environment, but nothing steering them together. You can have more independent oscillators, so things can

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Tom Van Baak
Kasper, > A short run here using the latest kernel gives an error of < ± 2e-10 > on 14.31818MHz hpet, and 0.5ppm on tsc. Ah, we know that frequency well 14.31818 MHz is 4x the NTSC colorburst frequency (~3.58 MHz). It is also 3x the original PC CPU clock frequency (~4.77 MHz). And 12x an ISA

[time-nuts] Spectracom 8195B Option 14

2021-01-06 Thread Gregory Beat via time-nuts
Spectracom 8195B Option 14 appeared on eBay GPS Ageless Master Oscillator, uses a 12-channel GPS receiver https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectracom-8195B-GPS-Ageless-Master-Oscillator-w-Opt-14-/373419711644 Option 14 (Data Sync outputs) CTCSS Outputs, replaces the 33-1/3 Hz and 17-2/3 Hz signals with

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi, On 2021-01-06 14:18, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Magnus Danielson writes: > >> If the actual clock is more than 15 ppm off from the value in the drift >> file, it will never track in the frequency error. This is due to >> algorithm error in the NTPD. I have pointed out this problem,

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Kasper Pedersen
On 06.01.2021 06.35, Luiz Paulo Damaceno wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm studying computer's timekeeping and i'm on level of remove the base > crystal that feeds the entire PLL logic of the motherboard (24 MHz on > motherboard that i'm using) and compare system's time with an NTP server. > (After

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Luiz Paulo Damaceno
Wow! Thank you for all the answers! I'm really happy... D. Rasor, Thank you for the file, i will take a look closer on it. Hal Murray, I have the same thought of you, but when I tried in an ARM Single Board Computer (Asus Tinkerboard) with the same scenario (external clock and no syncing in NTP)

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Tom Holmes
Am I missing something or maybe I don't understand the situation , but I am under the impression that the RTC has it's own battery and crystal unrelated to the processor clock. Seems like in that case, the 24 MHz won't have any effect on the timekeeping drift. Tom Holmes, N8ZM -Original

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Trent Piepho
On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 9:42 PM Luiz Paulo Damaceno wrote: > The 24 MHz comes from an synthesizer that is locked to an atomic clock, the > clock of NTP server (also 24 MHz, but an embedded board (Tinkerboard)) also > comes from the same Atomic clock that is feeding other synthesizer for >

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Magnus Danielson
Marek, On 2021-01-06 09:06, Marek Dorsic wrote: > NTP has a drift file (usually /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift or /var/lib/ntp/drift on > Linux) where it stores and periodically updates the computers clock drift > measured by ntpd in ppm. > In your scenario I assume it should contain only one number -

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Hal Murray
marek.dor...@gmail.com said: > NTP has a drift file (usually /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift or /var/lib/ntp/drift on > Linux) where it stores and periodically updates the computers clock drift > measured by ntpd in ppm. The drift file only gets updated occasionally. (it's trying to avoid wearing out

Re: [time-nuts] x86 CPU Timekeeping and clock generation

2021-01-06 Thread Marek Dorsic
NTP has a drift file (usually /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift or /var/lib/ntp/drift on Linux) where it stores and periodically updates the computers clock drift measured by ntpd in ppm. In your scenario I assume it should contain only one number - 0. If it’s not 0, does it correspond to the drift you