[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

My Dad who taught Electrical Engineering told me that when parts are sold in different quality grades (like resistors or in this case, crystals), that the parts that meet the highest spec are sold for a high price, then the next highest quality spec parts are sold for less, and so on. So your typic

[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 1:48 PM Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > Since these embedded chips generally are incredibly robust with > respect to timing, the xtal on the BOM is the cheapest that will > meet spec. Crystals? We don't need no stinking crystals! At least for the RTC. Chips like, e.g. the NX

[time-nuts] Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 209, Issue 29

-- There's no such thing as government funded. It's all TAXPAYER funded. The problem with political jokes is sometimes they get elected. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.feb

[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

Alec Teal writes: > So you suspect/expect around the time frequency changes started > happening, clocks became crap? Well, it gets complicated fast there, but yes, that's pretty much where the shit inescapably hit the fan. Previous to that, most CPU's were clocked with a small PLL chip

[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

Hi If your wrist watch is holding 3 seconds per year without some sort of external correction, that’s pretty amazing …. 10 seconds a month is doing well. Bob > On Sep 29, 2021, at 2:35 PM, Alec Teal wrote: > > Hi there, > > I have a question and I cannot think of anyone better to ask, for a

[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

I assume you're talking about the RTC chip that runs off the CMOS BIOS memory settings battery, to keep time whether the computer is on or off. These are as you suspect, typically cheap items that get the basic job done. You may be able to find better grade ones. It also depends on whether the

[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

Alec, I seem to perceive that PC clocks have gotten quite a bit better since their early days. What do others think? Dana On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 3:10 PM Alec Teal wrote: > Hi there, > > I have a question and I cannot think of anyone better to ask, for a > project we need to time some things

[time-nuts] Re: When did computer clocks get so bad?

Alec Teal writes: > My theory is that super cheap crappy quartz clocks are now used in > things which can be reasonably expected to be online most of the time, There are multiple answers to your question. The funny one is: When they set fire to a prototype motherboard at Intel Archit

[time-nuts] When did computer clocks get so bad?

Hi there, I have a question and I cannot think of anyone better to ask, for a project we need to time some things which are connected to a computer, using NTP and later using a GPS over bluetooth serial ports, we have discovered that computer clocks are terrible If you remove a linear drift

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Hi Indeed the grader and the remote installation both may be “people-less” much of the time. The “stuff” in those installations (that are big enough to require real roads between them) is going to take some significant lift capacity. Does the road go in ahead of the first installation? Seems un

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

On 9/29/21 11:19 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Bob kb8tq writes: Road building and graders sort of implies moving large amounts of “stuff” onto the lunar surface. While a “road to nowhere” on earth might happen, I’d bet you only build one on the moon to connect inhabited installations t

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

On 9/29/21 10:24 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi My thinking was that radio astronomy / VLBI sort of stuff is something folks get interested in. There are some advantages to a lunar location (more so one on the far side). Enough interest and maybe there’s funding. Clock specs could / might be similar t

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Bob kb8tq writes: > Road building and graders sort of implies moving large amounts of “stuff” > onto the lunar surface. While a “road to nowhere” on earth might happen, > I’d bet you only build one on the moon to connect inhabited installations > to other full blown (inhabited or not) s

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Hi > On Sep 29, 2021, at 12:53 PM, Lux, Jim wrote: > > On 9/29/21 9:10 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: >> Hi >> >> Road building and graders sort of implies moving large amounts of “stuff” >> onto the lunar surface. While a “road to nowhere” on earth might happen, >> I’d bet you only build one on the moon

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

On 9/29/21 9:10 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: Hi Road building and graders sort of implies moving large amounts of “stuff” onto the lunar surface. While a “road to nowhere” on earth might happen, I’d bet you only build one on the moon to connect inhabited installations to other full blown (inhabited or n

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Hi Road building and graders sort of implies moving large amounts of “stuff” onto the lunar surface. While a “road to nowhere” on earth might happen, I’d bet you only build one on the moon to connect inhabited installations to other full blown (inhabited or not) sites of some sort. Unless I’ve

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

On 9/29/21 8:13 AM, Joseph B. Fitzgerald wrote: By the time we get to road building, a pretty robust communications system will be in place. Given the synchronization requirements of modern digital networks, accurate time will be available just as it is in terrestrial cell phone networks.

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

What will be the effect of the lunar ‘mascons’ on orbital time and position satellites? As I recall from Apollo, the effects were significant in hitting the targeted landing place—but the orbits were much lower, which increases the effect of each mascon. On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:54 AM Bob kb8tq

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

On 9/29/21 7:30 AM, Chris Howard wrote: My employment involves the design and manufacturing of construction equipment. I had a conversation today about what will be needed for time/positioning when GPS is not in sight, like road-building on the far side of the moon. The context was timestamp

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

By the time we get to road building, a pretty robust communications system will be in place. Given the synchronization requirements of modern digital networks, accurate time will be available just as it is in terrestrial cell phone networks. -Joe Fitzgerald __

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Hi My *guess* (and it’s only a guess) is that before you get to the “road building” phase, there will already be at least a basic set of satellites providing coverage for the moon. However much they cost today, they will be way cheaper then. They also would be useful for a wide range of activit

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Communication and navigation satellites around the Moon are already under consideration by ESA... https://insidegnss.com/galileo-update-esas-paul-verhoef-outlines-top-priorities/ .md > On 29 Sep 2021, at 16:

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

On 9/29/21 7:30 AM, Chris Howard wrote: My employment involves the design and manufacturing of construction equipment. I had a conversation today about what will be needed for time/positioning when GPS is not in sight, like road-building on the far side of the moon. The context was timestamp

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

Chris Howard writes: > No GPS probably means cesium on the road grader? There are perfectly good optical gyros for that kind of job, most expensive planes already have them, and space qualifying them is not going to be that different from their current qualifications. Random press-relea

[time-nuts] Re: constructing a moon base

When things get that big they could put a series of location satellites around the Moon, so it has its own ... err... not GPS, but MPS perhaps? Andy www.g4jnt.com On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 15:31, Chris Howard wrote: > My employment involves the design and manufacturing of construction > equipme

[time-nuts] constructing a moon base

My employment involves the design and manufacturing of construction equipment. I had a conversation today about what will be needed for time/positioning when GPS is not in sight, like road-building on the far side of the moon. The context was timestamp coordination between multiple data source