Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-08-09 Thread Douglas Stebila
Hi Dan, If memory serves, this came via discussion on the list in July 2021 after my presentation at IETF 105. At the time we presented a choice between two main approaches: one where each part of the combination was fully negotiated with corresponding data structures for everything, and a sim

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-08-05 Thread Dan Brown
> -Original Message- > From: TLS On Behalf Of Douglas Stebila > We wanted to see if there is any further feedback on our draft "Hybrid key > exchange in TLS 1.3" ... We have not received any new feedback from the working group > since we posted our last non-trivial update in October 2020.

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-13 Thread Dan Brown
Hi Douglas, Your general approach paves the way for improved forward security, as insurance against new attacks, a non-negligible risk (*). So, the TLS WG should advance it soon. Sorry, that I've not yet looked at the details, but I trust that your I-D is good. Best regards, Dan PS (*) The

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-12 Thread Douglas Stebila
On Jul 7, 2021, at 09:26, Salz, Rich wrote: > > PQ OID's came up in the LAMPS working group, which seems to want to defer to > NIST. You should maybe cross-post your note there. Hi Rich, Unless I'm mistaken, OIDs are relevant to TLS in the context of signatures, but not key exchange; TLS def

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-12 Thread Douglas Stebila
Thanks Martin. All makes sense, and I'll incorporate in a revision. Though at this point changing the word "hybrid" to "composite" would be a rather big rewrite so I'll omit that unless there are very strong objections to the word hybrid. Douglas > On Jul 6, 2021, at 21:53, Martin Thomson

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-07 Thread Salz, Rich
PQ OID's came up in the LAMPS working group, which seems to want to defer to NIST. You should maybe cross-post your note there. ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-06 Thread Martin Thomson
I just took a look. I didn't read the (large) appendices, though I appreciate that they have value. The draft is largely in good shape. I have a few minor concerns. I don't think that you want to reserve the hybrid_private_use(0x2F00..0x2FFF) range of values. There were specific reasons for

Re: [TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-06 Thread Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
I personally do not find the proposed approach appealing (or even useful). There are three possibilities. a. Quantum computers capable of breaking crypto (QC) become practical *and* NIST PQC winner(s) resist both quantum and classic attacks; b. QC become practical, and NIST PQC candidates fail (

[TLS] Advancing draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design

2021-07-06 Thread Douglas Stebila
Dear TLS working group, We wanted to see if there is any further feedback on our draft "Hybrid key exchange in TLS 1.3" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-hybrid-design/) and what steps are required for it to advance further. We have not received any new feedback from the workin