Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-24 Thread Peter Gutmann
Hubert Kario writes: >In my experience, many (12%) servers simply ignore the list of curves >advertised by client and use the P-256 curve always. > >Some (58%) check if it was advertised and fallback to non-ECDHE if P-256 is >not advertised. When I checked, which is a year or two back now, I fou

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-24 Thread Fedor Brunner
Timothy Jackson: > I’ve noted that many (most?) TLS implementations choose their ECDHE curves > seemingly without regard to the cipher suite strength. Thus, they'll select > an AES256 cipher suite (e.g. TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES256_SHA384), but then > generate an ECDHE key on the P256 curve. This

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-23 Thread Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
>>I’d state secp384r1 (...) as "NOT RECOMMENDED" to bother with, >> but still permitted > >I'd say it is a tad bit too strong of a wording for the strongest curve >supported by SChannel... +1 to Hubert. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-23 Thread Hubert Kario
On Tuesday 22 March 2016 23:26:22 Dave Garrett wrote: > X25519, secp256r1, X448, one of ffdhe3072 or ffdhe4096, and then > lastly, ffdhe8192 and/or secp521r1 only as emergency backup > (arguably, X448 belongs back here too) > > I'd like to specify ffdhe2048 (~103-bit strength) as "MUST NOT" use >

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-23 Thread Hubert Kario
On Wednesday 23 March 2016 00:38:13 Timothy Jackson wrote: > I’ve noted that many (most?) TLS implementations choose their ECDHE > curves seemingly without regard to the cipher suite strength. Thus, > they'll select an AES256 cipher suite (e.g. > TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES256_SHA384), but then genera

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-23 Thread Ilari Liusvaara
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 12:38:13AM +, Timothy Jackson wrote: > I’ve noted that many (most?) TLS implementations choose their ECDHE > curves seemingly without regard to the cipher suite strength. Thus, > they'll select an AES256 cipher suite (e.g. > TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES256_SHA384), > but th

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-22 Thread Dave Garrett
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 08:38:13 pm Timothy Jackson wrote: > How would this group feel about a proposal to address this by specifying in > the 1.3 specification that implementations must ensure that the strength of > the certificate must be >= strength of ECDHE/DHE >= strength of the cipher?

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-22 Thread Salz, Rich
> How would this group feel about a proposal to address this by > specifying in the 1.3 specification that implementations must ensure > that the strength of the certificate must be >= strength of ECDHE/DHE >= > strength of the cipher? Strongly opposed, for the reasons Martin said. Insisting that

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-22 Thread Eric Rescorla
On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Timothy Jackson wrote: > I’ve noted that many (most?) TLS implementations choose their ECDHE curves > seemingly without regard to the cipher suite strength. Thus, they'll select > an AES256 cipher suite (e.g. TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES256_SHA384), but then > generat

Re: [TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-22 Thread Martin Thomson
On 23 March 2016 at 11:38, Timothy Jackson wrote: > How would this group feel about a proposal to address this by specifying in > the 1.3 specification that implementations must ensure that the strength of > the certificate must be >= strength of ECDHE/DHE >= strength of the cipher? There are goo

[TLS] Ensuring consistent strength across certificate, ECDHE, cipher, and MAC

2016-03-22 Thread Timothy Jackson
I’ve noted that many (most?) TLS implementations choose their ECDHE curves seemingly without regard to the cipher suite strength. Thus, they'll select an AES256 cipher suite (e.g. TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES256_SHA384), but then generate an ECDHE key on the P256 curve. This seems odd to me, since t