All
I have been running a 160M Inverted L right up beside some pine trees to
the 80ft level and then I have the horizontal part moving away.
The support for the vertical part is in the tree it runs up beside.
I also have 4 Elevated radials at about 6ft (approx 1/4 wave).
I'm pretty pleased
I would never consider compromising a TX antenna just to hear better.
Perhaps a T vertical with a feedline choke similar to your 80m dipole
and feedline radiator footprint would help with any local noise. Also
there are many small RX antenna options. My station in Aruba was on a
small
On 8/15/2019 4:57 PM, John Harper wrote:
Last year I used my 80m dipole-110-foot vertical feedline as a top-loaded
vertical on 160 - it worked well as a transmitting antenna but was a poor
receiver due to noise so looking for another option.
Tnx/73,
John AE5X
https://ae5x.blogspot.com
Have
would be far better if you could install an inverted-L vertical
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "John Harper"
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:57:49 PM
> Subject: Topband: Effect of trees on v
Thanks for the info guys.
If only I had room for a dedicated rx antenna - then I'd leave the
top-loaded vertical as is. I was copied in New Zealand with it on 630m WSPR
with 1 watt ERP.
So a happy medium is what I'm after since an excellent tx antenna does me
no good if I can't hear those
John, your 80M dipole with 110 foot vertical feedline fed as a top-loaded
vertical on 160M is a wonderful antenna.
If you are unhappy with its receive performance,the solution is to add a
receive antenna (or two, or three!). Not to put up a worse transmitting
antenna :-)
Tim N3QE
On Mon,
for local
QSOs. It would be far better if you could install an inverted-L vertical
73
Frank
W3LPL
- Original Message -
From: "John Harper"
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 11:57:49 PM
Subject: Topband: Effect of trees on vertical elements?
I'
2019 11:57:49 PM
Subject: Topband: Effect of trees on vertical elements?
I'm thinking of installing an end-fed half-wave dipole as an "inverted U"
for 160m. My tree geometry is such that the antenna would be fed at the
base of a tree, then go up it to 120 feet. Then about 90 f
I'm thinking of installing an end-fed half-wave dipole as an "inverted U"
for 160m. My tree geometry is such that the antenna would be fed at the
base of a tree, then go up it to 120 feet. Then about 90 feet to another
tree and down it to complete the length of the antenna.
Would the close
Long delayed response to
http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/2013-August/041954.html
K2AV wrote:
By common
expectation LPL and LR should have a propagation advantage over NY4A.
LPL and LR both have excellent stacked 3 or 4 element 40m yagi's. But
note how as the fourth mode
Mike,
Thanks for the info on RBN. I am learning how to navigate thru RBN
also. Very helpful.
Bob
K6UJ
On Aug 10, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure if there's a tutorial, but let me see if we call help a
little. Since I probably have cookies saved from
On 8/10/2013 6:28 AM, Tom W8JI wrote:
This is a good example where the problem of not quantifying things
comes in. No one here knows what the typical loss or interation is,
and it is probably impossible to know what the extact interation is in
every situation.
Yes, and that's exactly why
W8JI says:
My gut feeling is
the one that looks the best and takes the most work will make you feel like
you have the best signal you ever had, but no one else will notice the
change except you
This is a a very significant statement when you think about it.
Ask anyone you talk to on the
Here is a little data in a sea of complexity:
My 160m T is 10' up at the base with 6 x 125' radials elevated ten feet
(4 more planned), in a mixed hemlock/red cedar/alder forest/clear area.
The top is at 87' and the T arms are 42' each side at the same height.
The vertical wire (13ga
Thank you all for the replies regarding the T versus L rebuild for my 160
antenna. I'm on a 120x120' city lot in Fairbanks. For fun look me up in QRZ,
under 'Detail' zoom in for a satellite view via Google, then switch to a street
view to see the trees. The motorhome is gone, the motorcycle is
W8JI wrote:
My gut feeling is
the one that looks the best and takes the most work will make you feel like
you have the best signal you ever had, but no one else will notice the
change except you unless you tell them about all the work or they like a
particular antenna you are using.
K2XT
This is a VERY profound piece of advice!
The RBN showed me that something was definitely wrong with my TX signal
level this summer. It was considerably down from several other stations not
that far away, even with 1500 watts. And it wasn't like that at all at
first; before the foliage started
-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Tippett
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 1:20 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of trees- tree appreciation
W8JI wrote:
My gut feeling is
the one that looks the best
I haven’t used the RBN. Guess I need to figure out how so as to quantify the
performance of what I have up.
Is there a tutorial on the site?
Cecil Acuff
Gulfport MS
K5DL
From: Bill Tippett
Sent: August 10, 2013 12:19 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect
I'm not sure if there's a tutorial, but let me see if we call help a
little. Since I probably have cookies saved from using them, you may
experience something a little different.
Click http://www.reversebeacon.net/main.php.
NO, better yet, try http://www.reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/ instead . You
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 7:47 PM, chac...@cableone.net wrote:
I haven’t used the RBN. Guess I need to figure out how so as to quantify the
performance of what I have up.
Is there a tutorial on the site?
I don't think so but go to DX spots, then spots analysis tool.
Then select a date
I expect the losses are related to current not voltage. The current of my
antenna is in the vertical section for the most part and loss would would have
to happen there as coupled to the nearest tree. The current would have to flow
to ground so I seriously doubt if the resistance of the trunk
: Friday, August 09, 2013 4:21 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of trees- tree appreciation
I expect the losses are related to current not voltage. The current of my
antenna is in the vertical section for the most part and loss would would
have to happen there as coupled
I expect the losses are related to current not voltage. The current of my
antenna is in the vertical section for the most part and loss would would
have to happen there as coupled to the nearest tree. The current would have
to flow to ground so I seriously doubt if the resistance of the trunk
Where are the high voltage points in a T antenna?
I have the choice of putting up either a new T between two trees, or an L again
on 160M. The ends of the T would by necessity be strung over and go down 20-30'
alongside the two supporting trees.
The L would parallel a tree and bend over at
On 8/9/2013 9:31 PM, Gary and Kathleen Pearse wrote:
Where are the high voltage points in a T antenna?
The end of an antenna (for example, at the end insulator of a wire
antenna) MUST be a current minimum (near zero) because there is no place
for it to go except by capacitance to space or
[mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Chartrand
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 5:51 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of trees- tree appreciation
I love my trees. They have held up my 160 antennas at my QTH for the last 18
years. For them to make
For them to make a significant impact on my ability to transmit, they would
have to absorb at least 3db (750 watts).
So your loss is less than 3 db, and so it's of no concern to you?
I know 160 meter ops who would, and do, pay lots of money for an extra 3 db.
Say your tree loss was really
Just thinking here - I can hold my hand on a 75 watt lightbulb for a few
seconds. 10 of those lightbulbs-worth of heat isn't very much heat,
dissipated over the surface area of the bark of a tree, 60 feet tall, in
winter, with low temps, and maybe even some wind can't really have much in
Stealey; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of trees- tree appreciation
Just thinking here - I can hold my hand on a 75 watt lightbulb for a
few seconds. 10 of those lightbulbs-worth of heat isn't very much
heat, dissipated over the surface area of the bark of a tree, 60
, Rick Stealey rstea...@hotmail.com,
topband@contesting.com
Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 6:04:24 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of trees- tree appreciation
Different folks here have promulgated a high voltage point loss model for
antennas in trees. I think this could be a valid model
On 8/8/2013 10:09 AM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
I caught a tree on fire at night because the end of my dipole was in some dead
tree branches!
One of the first antennas I hung when I moved here was a horizontal
dipole for 80 with loading coils for 160M, built with THHN. One end was
I love my trees. They have held up my 160 antennas at my QTH for the last 18
years. For them to make a significant impact on my ability to transmit, they
would have to absorb at least 3db (750 watts). If any of them have absorbed
that amount of power, I suspect they would have gone up in
But, Carl, there may be other variables changing in the system, for
example, the amount of moisture in the ground. So it's not a controlled
experiment.
Bob
VE3OSZ
Every autumn (when the fluid is leaving the trees) and every spring (when
the fluid is coming up again) I have to go out and
In general, without knowing any details, it could simply be an indication
of insufficient radials with a large seasonal change in ground moisture.
If however during the dry season there is no change after a heavy rain and
the change remains constant across the season, then the smart betting is on
The difference between winter and spring/ autumn and winter usually is
very distinct up here and moisture is quite constant throughout the
year. I have noticed that I have to adjust the phasing when temp. is
going above zero and (in fall) it´s been below zero.
Sometimes spring is late, sometimes
Ah, assuming you mean zero centigrade, and therefore the transition from
wet soil to frozen soil...
Frozen soil can be quite different at RF than wet soil. I have some
startling stories from Minnesota about frozen dirt that also included
increased loss when frozen. Too-sparse or too-short radials
The difference between winter and spring/ autumn and winter usually is
very distinct up here and moisture is quite constant throughout the
year. I have noticed that I have to adjust the phasing when temp. is
going above zero and (in fall) it´s been below zero.
Sometimes spring is late,
It's that time of year when trees and temps become Topband topic. Propagation
must be poor.
Until the supporting tree blew down, my Inv-L for 160 required shortening of
the L in the Fall when the supporting and surrounding trees froze along with
the ground below. However, in mid-winter if
to 128 radials. It
also stabilizes the all important maximum current area so that climate
doesnt have much effect.
Carl
KM1H
- Original Message -
From: Robert Kavanagh 73rjk...@sympatico.ca
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 1:32 PM
Subject: Topband: Effect of trees
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