If you have an efficient transmitting antenna, and an accurately calibrated
S Meter, I have found over the decades that most signal reports are pretty
Reciprocal.
When it comes to 160m DX-ing, I think my own situation is fairly unusual, in
that my Receiving Antenna is also my Transmitting Antenn
Well personally I always give Signal Strength reports from my S Meter . . .
So it doesn't matter whether my Noise Level is S2 or S6 . . . I'm telling
you how strong your signal is at my QTH.
Roger G3YRO
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Refle
Well whether people have an accurate S Meter is another debate altogether !
If ever I'm working somebody on SSB, and they are S9 +20 with me, but they
tell me I'm just S8, I ask them if they have an Attenuator switched in or
their Preamp switched off . . . when I point out that their rig's S Met
I must admit, that even when I started out on Top Band 50 years ago, and my
CR100 Receiver didn't have an S Meter, I think I was pretty good at
estimating how strong signals were (ie how many uV were arriving at my front
end) by the position of the RF gain !
But once I had a commercial rig with
Jim K9YC asked about other possible mechanisms besides atmospheric noise to
account for one-way propagation on 160-Meters. For the record, I also believe
atmospheric noise (and even man-made noise as experienced by the PT0S ops) is a
big player in these observations. By the way, I also would lik
Interesting theories and observations regarding one way propagation..My
take is that most of the seemingly one way prop is more dependent on
operator skill and the local qrn at one end of the circuit..With the
current conditions this past 12 months most usually strong signals on
the band are of
Hi Roger,
The experience I share with the few Gs with whom I regularly have QSOs
is that the propagation is more often better one way than the other. At
my SS, via LP, I hear them better than they me, and vice versa at my SR.
It's not always the case, but is more often than not.
73, Greg, ZL
On 1/16/2021 3:20 PM, Roger Kennedy wrote:
If you have an efficient transmitting antenna, and an accurately calibrated
S Meter, I have found over the decades that most signal reports are pretty
Reciprocal.
73 Roger G3YRO
Even if:
1. Propagation were always reciprocal.
and
2. Everyo
Here is the one possible explanation in my old article
http://www.k3bu.us/propagation.htm
73 Yuri, K3BU, VE3BMV, VE1BY etc.
> On January 16, 2021 at 6:20 PM Roger Kennedy
> wrote:
>
>
>
> If you have an efficient transmitting antenna, and an accurately calibrated
> S Meter, I have found ove
Roger
Lucky you!
My S meter rarely goes below S4( on the BOG) and S8 on the transmit
antenna ..
In the context of measuring one way propagation there is the purist's
dilemma of receiving antenna signal level vs transmit antenna signal level ?
Dave
NR1DX
On 1/17/2021 8:04 AM, Roger Kenne
Hi Roger,
Signal report comparisons with the modern radios that often have preamps
that you can switch in or out really clouds the picture as well as the fact
most stations on topband use RX antennas. Assuming that all manufacturers
have S meters that are calibrated identical to each other (whic
I'm not going to smack this tar baby, other than to note that Elecraft is a
special case with respect to S-meters. K3(S) have an "Absolute" mode that
compensates for preamp gain or input attenuation. So the S-meter becomes a
decent power meter.
I think it's unconscionable that other manufactu
All Flex radios measure signal strength regardless of the PreAmp settings.
As well, they correctly calculate the power in the receiving passband.
Early superhet radios use maxim signal that was rectified into a DC voltage
to provide an S meter reading and to also drive the AGC. This is why when
Then with FT8, the "db" rating depends on S/N not signal power. I hear
well so my report is most frequently better than received. The big guns
are an exception with well engineered stations in good locations.
However, FT8 "db's" being S/N do wash out the gain loss when using Rx
antennas.
Of
Comment below
On 1/17/2021 11:09 AM, Wes wrote:
I'm not going to smack this tar baby, other than to note that Elecraft
is a special case with respect to S-meters. K3(S) have an "Absolute"
mode that compensates for preamp gain or input attenuation. So the
S-meter becomes a decent power meter.
I have been using HPSDR in my station for the past ten or so years, and like
Flex SDR, the S-meter does not change with application of attenuator. The
signal strength changes between the transmitting antenna and receiving
antennas of course, so IMO it's absolute value is largely irrelevant.
I
Finally some common sense, thanks Luke!
Rich - W4RQ Amateur Radio: The Original Social Media
> On Jan 17, 2021, at 20:26, List Mail wrote:
>
> I have been using HPSDR in my station for the past ten or so years, and like
> Flex SDR, the S-meter does not change with application of attenuator. T
Replacing T at RS(T) reporting with N (Noise floor) RSN could be more
precise reading.
73, Agelos SV3RF
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Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
On 12/3/2012 10:09 AM, k...@frontier.com wrote:
So I believe there is a possibility that there are other mechanisms at play to
give us one-way propagation. Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, we do not
understand them.
Thanks for the great response, Carl.
73, Jim K9YC
__
ssage-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
k...@frontier.com
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:10 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: one-way propagation
Jim K9YC asked about other possible mechanisms besides atmospheric noise to
account for on
nt: Monday, December 03, 2012 1:09 PM
Subject: Topband: one-way propagation
Jim K9YC asked about other possible mechanisms besides atmospheric noise
to account for one-way propagation on 160-Meters. For the record, I also
believe atmospheric noise (and even man-made noise as experienced by the
PT0S
(bad tx) happens rarely on 40m.
73
Peter, DJ7WW
-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ZR
Sent: Montag, 3. Dezember 2012 20:05
To: k...@frontier.com; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: one-way propagation
Having operated in Western
To expand a little on Carl's explanation, the ionosphere is not as
isotropy as we commonly imagine - in that it is not a nice smooth balloon
shaped surface to bounce a signal off of. Instead, there are varying
degrees of irregularity, not unlike a sandy desert where the wind moves
the landscap
To: jbw...@comcast.net; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: one-way propagation
> To expand a little on Carl's explanation, the ionosphere is not as
> isotropy as we commonly imagine - in that it is not a nice smooth
> balloon shaped surface to bounce a signal off of. Inst
I'm weighing in with Tom here. The reciprocity theorem in electromagnetism
is well known, and it shows that no amount of focusing, defocusing,
scattering, refraction, or reflection will by themselves cause one way
propagation. If you take away the earth's magnetic field and its attendant
Faraday ro
I've often thought that some "one-way propagation" is simply due to the
differences in antennas. For example, two stations with the same power,
ambient noise level, etc. are receiving on Beverages pointed at each other,
but their TX antennas have different takeoff angles and/or patterns. For
exampl
It is a known that the ionosphere is not a perfect sphere. It is always
moving and it is lumpy and tilted. Together these occurrences can cause
focusing and defocusing of the wave due to deformities especially if they
are concave or convex. One-way-propagation can reveal itself as a deep
a
7;Tom W8JI'; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: one-way propagation
Tom,
It is a known that the ionosphere is not a perfect sphere. It is always
moving and it is lumpy and tilted. Together these occurrences can cause
focusing and defocusing of the wave due to deformities especially if t
Yes, a good point that I neglected. This entirely circumvents my yammerings
about reciprocity. Reciprocity is a characteristic of a single pair of
ports in a network. Introducing separate receive antennas can surely cause
a one way effect. Consider what happens when I hook up a dummy load as a Rx
a
x27;t understand
yet.
Is your WF horizontal antenna much higher than the vertical?
Jim, KR9U
-Original Message-
From: N4IS [mailto:n...@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:18 PM
To: jbw...@comcast.net; 'Tom W8JI'; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: one-way propag
ilto:n...@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:18 PM
To: jbw...@comcast.net; 'Tom W8JI'; topband@contesting.com
Subject: RE: Topband: one-way propagation
Jim
Not always, polarization plays a lot on 160m, in special W-E E-W. Sometimes
a signal from Africa dive on the QSB and di
Tom,
I don't think anyone takes issue with the concept of propagated noise
raising the noise level on one side of the QSO while the other side is
still quiet. Anyone who looks for it will see it if their QTH is
relatively quiet, and I regularly see the 10-15 dB variation you've
often cited.
Nope, Nope. I am a firm believer in one-way propagation on 160m, having
witnessed it many times. Let me give you a recent example. In the last
weekends contest I worked LY7M. We both run decent stations. We exchanged
emails after including actual signal strength. Saulius copied me 579; I
copi
;
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 17:14
Subject: Re: Topband: one- way propagation
Nope, Nope. I am a firm believer in one-way propagation on 160m, having
witnessed it many times. Let me give you a recent example. In the last
weekends contest I worked LY7M. We both run decent stations.
Doug
>
Nope, Nope. I am a firm believer in one-way propagation on 160m, having
witnessed it many times.
>
Can we agree, that we disagree.?
When the signal is going up the polarization does not matter because after
the first refraction the signal become elliptical, that's why the DX station
Here some interesting paper about LF MF polarization
http://www.ann-geophys.net/22/1705/2004/angeo-22-1705-2004.pdf
This paper, High-latitude propagation studies using a meridional chain of
LF/MF/HF receivers
>>
Fig. 5. (a) Polarization of 50-5000 kHz signals recorded at
Churchill, Manitoba, on 1
;; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: one- way propagation
Here some interesting paper about LF MF polarization
http://www.ann-geophys.net/22/1705/2004/angeo-22-1705-2004.pdf
This paper, High-latitude propagation studies using a meridional chain of
LF/MF/HF receivers
>>
Fig. 5.
while on here one stands on a platform (not you
Carl) and expects everything said to be believed without question.
Carl
KM1H
- Original Message -
From: "Carl Clawson"
To: "topband"
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: one-way propagation
Here some interesting paper about LF MF polarization
http://www.ann-geophys.net/22/1705/2004/angeo-22-1705-2004.pdf
This paper, High-latitude propagation studies using a meridional chain of
LF/MF/HF receivers
I stop reading when I get to this point:
"The receivers used in this study involve o
Last weekend was (finally) a return of over-the-pole conditions in my QTH,
similar to what we experienced frequently in 2009 and 2010. I could hear
western NA stations ALL day here, some with very good signals despite full
daylight at my end. They did not fade out until sunrise over there >14.00
GM
On my 80 meter NTS net last evening (1830 local time) I noticed that the
critical frequency had dropped below 3.5 MHz. I could barely hear some
stations that were only 40 miles away and my neighbor Claire N7CM reported
that she heard no one but me. (No problem working 5T0SP, however, which
entirely
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