I will be very active on the Top band during contest. NA condition is good around 02:00 - 04:00 GMT 73! Mamuka, 4L2M On Thursday, March 24, 2022, 08:00:53 PM GMT+4, topband-requ...@contesting.com <topband-requ...@contesting.com> wrote: Send Topband mailing list submissions to topband@contesting.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to topband-requ...@contesting.com You can reach the person managing the list at topband-ow...@contesting.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..." Today's Topics: 1. High winds flapping the L/FCP (Guy Olinger K2AV) 2. What antenna would you build? (Dino Darling) 3. Re: What antenna would you build? (Tim Duffy) 4. What antenna would you build? (Rob Atkinson) 5. Re: What antenna would you build? (Jon Zaimes, AA1K) 6. Re: What antenna would you build? (Mike VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca) 7. Re: What antenna would you build? (Tree) 8. Re: What antenna would you build? (w...@w5zn.org) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 23:48:26 -0400 From: Guy Olinger K2AV <k2av....@gmail.com> To: topband <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Topband: High winds flapping the L/FCP Message-ID: <canckpc3rmpmc_d8c81hvigy-h6cwkgaez0rxygj2793d8js...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Had a very gusty March 7 here in eastern North Carolina blowing the L/FCP all over. Did some 160m R,X,SWR scans to see the electrical result of that, recording them to graphical format. Was not expecting what I got. Would you have guessed that there is a way for the wind to wobble an antenna wire, so that the feed X would wobble, the feed SWR wobble worse, and the feed R would not? Text and graphics at: k2av.com/Snips.20220323.html Snips are a new format on k2av.com so I can post to list-servers using short messages with a link without loading the list with illustrations or detailed text, and save pix and text in an accessible place where people can get to them without having to dig through archives. Then I can post with careful language, illustrations, keep them indexed and available and *editable* on the web site for later readers. A short format for curiosities, oddities, new understandings, answers to posts on list-servers, etc. Enjoy. 73, Guy K2AV ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 04:38:39 +0000 From: Dino Darling <d...@kx6d.com> To: "Topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <byapr08mb56381785bd3b366296a640c1f8...@byapr08mb5638.namprd08.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the blank)? I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great. So what would you build? Dino - KX6D ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:13:20 -0400 From: "Tim Duffy" <k...@k3lr.com> To: "'Dino Darling'" <d...@kx6d.com>, "'Topband@contesting.com'" <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <0c2301d83f3d$e17e85f0$a47b91d0$@k3lr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Dino, Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the Yagi chapter. I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that I am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical) and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm feedpoint impedance. It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100 DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio... It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the CQWW 160 meter contest and this past November, RW0A in zone 18 - in the morning local time here! 73 Tim K3LR -----Original Message----- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr....@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dino Darling Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 12:39 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build? If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the blank)? I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great. So what would you build? Dino - KX6D _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 05:18:43 -0500 From: Rob Atkinson <ranchoro...@gmail.com> To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <CALWD7Z70Cfb9hY2OxCnjqPJcrS66rRoujx1oz-S69HJwZcHx=a...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Good question. I don't think you mentioned any cost limit. Given that I would put up a substantial self supporting commercial tower ~ 130' tall. Solid legs, 5 or 6' face tapering to 1 or 2 feet. Pyrod or similar. I'd put a skirt on it, 3 vertical wires on insulated standoffs with horizontal loops bonded in, every 20' or so and plow in at least 100 quarter wave 160 m. radials around the tower base. Essentially a skirt fed 90 degree monopole on 1800 kc. skirt feed means the tower can be grounded and used for other purposes at the top -- whatever your interests are. Of course it would have to be sited to allow room for the ground system. Forget about anything horizontal or any kind of dipole on 160. I guess if you wanted to spend a lot, you could do a pair of these towers and phase them. You'll have solid towers you'll never be hesitant to climb; and never have to deal with guy cables, or a base insulator like you'd need with a guyed hot tower. You will get out unless the band is completely dead. It will be interesting to read what others come up with. 73 Rob K5UJ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:27:00 +0000 (UTC) From: "Jon Zaimes, AA1K" <j...@verizon.net> To: "k...@k3lr.com" <k...@k3lr.com>, "d...@kx6d.com" <d...@kx6d.com>, "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <1666822988.1660794.1648121220...@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 My version of Tim's array was installed in 1998, with 120 on-ground radials under each element. A few years later I added an extra director toward Europe for an additional 0.9 db gain in that direction. It brought me up to 329 countries on 160, including JT, HS, XZ, VU, A5, BA. After a few years I was looking for something more and came up with a broadside/endfire array that offers about 8.5 db gain over a single vertical. WW2Y/K2WI first used a version of this in New Jersey in the 1980s, with Inverted L elements hung from trees. VY2ZM has one using full-size towers. My version has a footprint of 325 feet by 146 feet, oriented to favor Europe. One of the T-shaped wire elements (no. 12 THHN, 73.5 feet vertical, 58 feet horizontal) is borrowed from the K3LR array, switched with relays. The other three are hung from towers and trees. Each element has 120 on-ground radials, about 130 feet long. A couple of bs/ef arrays are described in ON4UN's book. If you add four more elements this becomes the 8-circle array, switchable in 8 directions (may not fit in 5 acres). N5IA (SK) built one of these in Arizona, still in use by the NA7TB club station. K9DX had a 9-circle array in Illinois for many years, since dismantled. More complex but very effective. 73/Jon Jon P. Zaimes, AA1K Tower climber for hire http://www.aa1k.us/ Cell: 302-632-2353email: j...@verizon.net or a...@arrl.net -----Original Message----- From: Tim Duffy <k...@k3lr.com> To: 'Dino Darling' <d...@kx6d.com>; 'Topband@contesting.com' <topband@contesting.com> Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2022 1:13 am Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Hello Dino, Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the Yagi chapter. I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that I am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical) and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm feedpoint impedance. It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100 DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio... It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the CQWW 160 meter contest and this past November, RW0A in zone 18 - in the morning local time here! 73 Tim K3LR -----Original Message----- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr....@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dino Darling Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 12:39 AM To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build? If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the blank)? I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great. So what would you build? Dino - KX6D _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 10:27:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mike VE9AA ve...@nbnet.nb.ca" <ve...@nbnet.nb.ca> To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <3b324ec.5f16.17fbc53430a.webtop...@nbnet.nb.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no I like 4-squares Dino. I have them on 15, 20, 40, 80 and a small 2-el on 160... I'm still looking for an ACB-10 (10 meters) (or equivalent) to complete the whole set. If it were me, I'd build whatever it is VY2ZM is using. (vy2zm.com) or 2nd choice, K3LR GL Mike VE9AA If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the blank)? I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great. So what would you build? Dino - KX6D ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:37:23 -0700 From: Tree <t...@kkn.net> To: "Jon Zaimes, AA1K" <j...@verizon.net> Cc: "k...@k3lr.com" <k...@k3lr.com>, "d...@kx6d.com" <d...@kx6d.com>, "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <CAKF9HhY+ggAEmvuGNRNS0gR=L1PSzkGtPK4Ja0GhfxKwwr=g...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sorry I am a bit late to the party. You certainly can't go wrong with what K3LR or AA1K have. One question that maybe I would ask before giving advice - is what do you want to do with it? Is your primary goal to work as many countries as possible - or are you looking to be competitive in contests? If so - which contests? 160 meter antennas generally can be put into two categories - transmit and receive. The receive side is actually where to put your emphasis. Although some TX antennas have enough directivity to be useful on RX as well - HOWEVER, is any contest, it is useful to have an omni directional transmit antenna that is effective (which can be done with the K3LR approach). My suggestion might be to start with a simple 1/4 wave stick - which will enable you to work most anything you can hear - and then focus on a good array of RX antennas. You can add parasitic elements to it later if you want to mess around with them. They do take some tweaking to get tuned in just right - and also limit the amount of the band you can use (a downside in contests from the West coast where we often get pushed around the band). Tree N6TR On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 4:27 AM Jon Zaimes, AA1K via Topband < topband@contesting.com> wrote: > My version of Tim's array was installed in 1998, with 120 on-ground > radials under each element. A few years later I added an extra director > toward Europe for an additional 0.9 db gain in that direction. > It brought me up to 329 countries on 160, including JT, HS, XZ, VU, A5, BA. > After a few years I was looking for something more and came up with a > broadside/endfire array that offers about 8.5 db gain over a single > vertical. WW2Y/K2WI first used a version of this in New Jersey in the > 1980s, with Inverted L elements hung from trees. VY2ZM has one using > full-size towers. > My version has a footprint of 325 feet by 146 feet, oriented to favor > Europe. One of the T-shaped wire elements (no. 12 THHN, 73.5 feet vertical, > 58 feet horizontal) is borrowed from the K3LR array, switched with relays. > The other three are hung from towers and trees. Each element has 120 > on-ground radials, about 130 feet long. A couple of bs/ef arrays are > described in ON4UN's book. > If you add four more elements this becomes the 8-circle array, switchable > in 8 directions (may not fit in 5 acres). N5IA (SK) built one of these in > Arizona, still in use by the NA7TB club station. > K9DX had a 9-circle array in Illinois for many years, since dismantled. > More complex but very effective. > 73/Jon > > Jon P. Zaimes, AA1K Tower climber for hire http://www.aa1k.us/ Cell: > 302-632-2353email: j...@verizon.net or a...@arrl.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Duffy <k...@k3lr.com> > To: 'Dino Darling' <d...@kx6d.com>; 'Topband@contesting.com' < > topband@contesting.com> > Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2022 1:13 am > Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? > > Hello Dino, > > Take a look in the last three editions of the ON4UN Low Band book - in the > Yagi chapter. > > I have described in detail the 3 element vertical Yagi for 160 meters that > I > am using. Gives over 5 dB of gain (over a single 1/4 wavelength vertical) > and the front to back is over 30 dB at the peak. Four directions. It works > good for about 40 KHz of the band (great for DX contests). I do have CW and > SSB optimum settings for the parasitic elements. W5ZN, AA1K, K9CT, NR5M and > VE3EJ have built this antenna as well. It can work omni as well. Requires > one tower 120 feet tall and a LC matching network to step up the 25 ohm > feedpoint impedance. > > It is easy to build and very effective. Twice from K3LR we worked over 100 > DXCC in one weekend in the CQWW CW contest - from almost Ohio... > > It does require five extensive ground radial systems (one under each > element). The best DX with this antenna was JT5DX in zone 23 during the > CQWW > 160 meter contest and this past November, RW0A in zone 18 - in the morning > local time here! > > 73 > Tim K3LR > -----Original Message----- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr....@contesting.com] On > Behalf Of Dino Darling > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2022 12:39 AM > To: Topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: What antenna would you build? > > If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy > 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a serious > 160M > antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass on the Radio > Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. > > A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill in the > blank)? > > I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The end of > one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of the tower > and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the feedpoint, were > an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path to ground (like a guy > cable). However, the second half of the dipole was pulled back to the base > of the tower, from the center feedpoint insulator. It looked like an > arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole that was turned 90 degrees on its > side. The coax was horizontal back to the tower. There were three of these > spaced 120 degrees apart and fed with a phasing network to steer it. I > understand it works great. > > So what would you build? > > Dino - KX6D > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 09:33:19 -0600 From: w...@w5zn.org To: Dino Darling <d...@kx6d.com> Cc: "Topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: What antenna would you build? Message-ID: <1720170c3a11cf5949a299a851ae2...@w5zn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Dino, I started with a single 1/4 wave vertical as Tree notes and it worked extremely well for years, however after a period of time I had a desire to upgrade the single vertical to a system that offered some gain on TX. I came across the array that Tim, K3LR, mentioned in "Low Band DX'ing" that describes his systems and discovered I could build this array around the existing 1/4 wave vertical and achieve 4-square performance in a smaller footprint area. I have now used the array for four years and the performance has been outstanding. After reading the info regarding this array in Low Band DX'ing I documented some additional details of my experience that were presented at the Dayton Antenna Forum and also published in the National Contest Journal. Copies of those documents can be found here: https://www.kkn.net/dayton2018/2018_Dayton_Antenna_Forum-160_meter_TX_Array.pdf https://ncjweb.com/features/sepoct18feat.pdf As Tree notes, the very first step is to determine exactly what your objective is. The five element parasitic array has met my objectives for both contest and DX activities. 73 Joel W5ZN On 2022-03-23 22:38, Dino Darling wrote: > If you may and you are willing to indulge me; if you were about to buy > 5-acres with no neighbors or restrictions and wanted to erect a > serious 160M antenna system, what would you build and why? We can pass > on the Radio Arcala discussion; nobody's that cool. > > A loaded 4-square? 1/4 wave stick (or longer)? Phased dipoles? (fill > in the blank)? > > I've seen a 200' tower with three phased dipoles tilted on end. The > end of one side of the dipole was anchored and insulated at the top of > the tower and came down like guy cables. About half way down was the > feedpoint, were an isolated anchor cable continued down the same path > to ground (like a guy cable). However, the second half of the dipole > was pulled back to the base of the tower, from the center feedpoint > insulator. It looked like an arrowboard chevron or a regular dipole > that was turned 90 degrees on its side. The coax was horizontal back > to the tower. There were three of these spaced 120 degrees apart and > fed with a phasing network to steer it. I understand it works great. > > So what would you build? > > Dino - KX6D > _________________ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Topband mailing list Topband@contesting.com http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband ------------------------------ End of Topband Digest, Vol 231, Issue 14 **************************************** _________________ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector