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> From: Llewellin <llewellinjeg...@gmail.com> > Date: August 16, 2014 at 8:57:58 AM PDT > To: pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com > Subject: My post > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Llewellin <llewell...@yahoo.com> >> Date: August 13, 2014, 3:11:32 PM GMT+02:00 >> To: "trom@lists.newciv.org" <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> Subject: Re: Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 13 >> >> Perhaps let me word it differently: Playing a game can eventually lead to >> entrapment for a being ie compulsively playing the game. From no games >> to voluntarily playing to compulsively playing to insanity. >> >> Before we play we first need to find out if there is a game to play. I would >> presume that the being would first like like to know which games are >> available to play. >> >> Freeing oneself from the compulsion to play is a "different" to know in my >> opinion. It is a desire for the knowledge that leads one out of the trap. >> The "to know" that will as-is the compulsion to play. >> >> >>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 7:30 PM, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> Send Trom mailing list submissions to >>> trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11 (Paul Tipon) >>> 2. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 10 (Pete Mclaughlin) >>> 3. Which came first? (Pete Mclaughlin) >>> 4. Re: To Be Known (Paul Tipon) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:11:27 -0700 >>> From: Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com> >>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11 >>> Message-ID: <e55df41e-495a-48fd-b3bd-57f3ea94e...@proftitleserv.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed >>> >>> Hi Llewellin, >>> >>> I read Colleen's post but was not able to fully get the gist of what >>> she was saying so I can't comment on that. However, 'To Know' is not >>> the mechanism of a trap. The mechanism which entraps is 'Not Know'. >>> Since one can always 'Know', if one would in fact simply 'Know', >>> which is an inherent ability of the being, then one could never be >>> trapped for it is the decision to 'Not Know' that will keep one in a >>> situation or condition without any hope of every getting out or >>> becoming free. The all encompassing truth is ... "The Truth shall >>> set you Free". Lies, the unknowns derived from 'Not Know' are what >>> entrap. >>> >>> If one were to know what he really was and what he was really capable >>> of as a being there would not be a trap or any trapping at all. It >>> is one's decision to 'Not Know' that entraps one. >>> >>> Paul, keep on TROMming >>> >>> On Aug 12, 2014, at 8:54 AM, Llewellin wrote: >>> >>> > ************* >>> > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> > ************ >>> > I'm with Coleen on this one. When a being strikes out on its own, >>> > its first impulse in my opinion is "to know." That initial >>> > curiosity leads to eventual entrapment at least in the case of life >>> > on this planet. >>> > >>> > On Aug 12, 2014, at 2:00 PM, trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org wrote: >>> > >>> >> Send Trom mailing list submissions to >>> >> trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> >>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> >> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >>> >> >>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> >> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >>> >> >>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> >> than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Today's Topics: >>> >> >>> >> 1. RE Discussion about wording of goals packages >>> >> (Colleen K. Peltomaa) >>> >> 2. RE Discussion re "To Be Known" (Colleen K. Peltomaa) >>> >> 3. Re: Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 10 (Svoboda Vladimir) >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> - >>> >> >>> >> Message: 1 >>> >> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:03:10 -0400 >>> >> From: "Colleen K. Peltomaa" <cygnifi...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> Subject: [TROM1] RE Discussion about wording of goals packages >>> >> Message-ID: >>> >> <CAF4m2-2097=+R8yb=FK >>> >> +4vsga582v-6gmrh_gsi5egra69w...@mail.gmail.com> >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >> >>> >> Hello Svoboda, >>> >> >>> >> That is the way I always understood it -- everything matches in the >>> >> infinitive. >>> >> There is no problem running Level 4. >>> >> >>> >> colleen >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20140811/ >>> >> e5ddbe84/attachment-0001.html> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> Message: 2 >>> >> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 20:16:49 -0400 >>> >> From: "Colleen K. Peltomaa" <cygnifi...@gmail.com> >>> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> Subject: [TROM1] RE Discussion re "To Be Known" >>> >> Message-ID: >>> >> <CAF4m2-3k+S5wkYhQZO+SWddBJpv=F- >>> >> nujxw=lbovkmtzfte...@mail.gmail.com> >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >> >>> >> Hello, Pete, >>> >> >>> >> If one looks at the most basic incident possible, a type of first >>> >> separation to create persistency of the creation, the being wanted >>> >> "To >>> >> Know" better his creation, and all aspects of the goal set were >>> >> put in >>> >> place, and at this time I feel the first -- if there was a first >>> >> -- goal >>> >> was "To Know". He had to create something and do a reflexive >>> >> not-know/not-be-known My current understanding is that the prime >>> >> being/viewpoint was less interested in being known by its creation >>> >> as it >>> >> was in knowing its creation better. I would not swear to this on >>> >> a stack >>> >> of Bibles and is only a subjective viewing with hopefully some >>> >> logic. It >>> >> seems to me what you are talking about is the first being that >>> >> experienced >>> >> or had the consideration of being the effect. I see a "wall" >>> >> between these >>> >> two -- a wall which gets broken down using practices in Trom. >>> >> Based on >>> >> what I've seen so far I'm sticking with "To Know" as the general >>> >> descriptor. >>> >> >>> >> colleen >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> colleen >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/ >>> >> 20140811/3ed7c6b9/attachment-0001.html> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> Message: 3 >>> >> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:57:26 +0400 >>> >> From: Svoboda Vladimir <captf...@yandex.ru> >>> >> To: trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >>> >> Cc: trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 10 >>> >> Message-ID: <4461471407841...@web24j.yandex.ru> >>> >> Content-Type: text/plain >>> >> >>> >> I will emphasize the idea of equal importance of all four legs. If >>> >> I must to maintain own human existence as a spiritual being ( I >>> >> must be known as a human ), I also mustn't be known as someone >>> >> else, and I must know through the senses of the human body and not >>> >> to know through other means. But why? Divine curiosity. What >>> >> happens if I take a certain place in space and take a specific >>> >> wavelength? I just want to know what will happen because of this. >>> >> Curiosity on the scale CDEI. >>> >> By the way, Curiosity is the point of exit from the area of >>> >> desires that are prone to degradation. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> What is the core of the case? Is my desire to be human? Is my >>> >> desire not to be a free spirit, God? Is my desire to know the >>> >> piece, which is available for human perception? Is my desire not >>> >> to know the worlds of perception of other beings? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------ >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Trom mailing list >>> >> Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> End of Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11 >>> >> ************************************* >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Trom mailing list >>> > Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:12:18 -0700 >>> From: Pete Mclaughlin <pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> >>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 10 >>> Message-ID: <4ce99a34-a110-42ff-9f74-a3c23bb3e...@yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Sounds good to me. >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Pete >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> > On Aug 12, 2014, at 3:57 AM, Svoboda Vladimir <captf...@yandex.ru> wrote: >>> > >>> > ************* >>> > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> > ************ >>> > I will emphasize the idea of equal importance of all four legs. If I must >>> > to maintain own human existence as a spiritual being ( I must be known as >>> > a human ), I also mustn't be known as someone else, and I must know >>> > through the senses of the human body and not to know through other means. >>> > But why? Divine curiosity. What happens if I take a certain place in >>> > space and take a specific wavelength? I just want to know what will >>> > happen because of this. Curiosity on the scale CDEI. >>> > By the way, Curiosity is the point of exit from the area of desires that >>> > are prone to degradation. >>> > >>> > >>> > What is the core of the case? Is my desire to be human? Is my desire not >>> > to be a free spirit, God? Is my desire to know the piece, which is >>> > available for human perception? Is my desire not to know the worlds of >>> > perception of other beings? >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Trom mailing list >>> > Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:30:36 -0700 >>> From: Pete Mclaughlin <pete_mclaughlin_93...@yahoo.com> >>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >>> Subject: [TROM1] Which came first? >>> Message-ID: <a3e7d1a7-e22e-46de-9067-6a179bceb...@yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> >>> Hi Colleen >>> First comes desire then comes creation (be known) then comes desire to know >>> what you created then comes reasons why you did it. >>> >>> This is the sequence that Dennis presents. >>> >>> So first was desire but the first postulate was to be known only after that >>> was done was there anything to know. >>> >>> This sequence is what you are describing in your statement followed by " >>> the being wanted "To >>> > Know" better his creation,". >>> Obviously the being did the creating and then wanted to know what he had >>> done. >>> >>> So Dennis was right. The first postulate was "be known". >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Pete >>> >>> > Hello, Pete, >>> > >>> > If one looks at the most basic incident possible, a type of first >>> > separation to create persistency of the creation, the being wanted "To >>> > Know" better his creation, and all aspects of the goal set were put in >>> > place, and at this time I feel the first -- if there was a first -- goal >>> > was "To Know". He had to create something and do a reflexive >>> > not-know/not-be-known My current understanding is that the prime >>> > being/viewpoint was less interested in being known by its creation as it >>> > was in knowing its creation better. I would not swear to this on a stack >>> > of Bibles and is only a subjective viewing with hopefully some logic. It >>> > seems to me what you are talking about is the first being that experienced >>> > or had the consideration of being the effect. I see a "wall" between >>> > these >>> > two -- a wall which gets broken down using practices in Trom. Based on >>> > what I've seen so far I'm sticking with "To Know" as the general >>> > descriptor. >>> > >>> > colleen >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20140812/432a94bc/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:33:23 -0700 >>> From: Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com> >>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] To Be Known >>> Message-ID: <f3e8f900-e4bd-4d36-afb6-cc77f71b4...@proftitleserv.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed >>> >>> Yes. And what one does by running the junior packages is to achieve >>> a 'Freedom From .....' as in the packages and as in the Postulate >>> Failure Chart. One at the end then becomes a master of all packages >>> and of postulate failures and no longer has to be ruled by those >>> packages, those compulsive thoughts and actions related to those >>> junior packages and those compulsions ruled by one's failed postulates. >>> >>> This is very good that we are getting these posts and these threads. >>> Hopefully readers will see the fixed ideas that they have come up >>> with that hold in their compulsive thoughts and actions. >>> >>> 'Freedom From .....' literally everything and anything is the road >>> out. The two biggest facilities that any being has is the ability to >>> change one's mind and his ability of imagination. From this all >>> things are changed, created or destroyed. To a Spirit, there are no >>> absolutes, nothing solid, concrete or ever lasting. One has the >>> ability and the freedom to Know, to Not Know, to Be, to Not Be, to >>> Do, to Not Do and to Have or Not Have. >>> >>> As I have said many times, part of unlocking one's abilities if not >>> the major part, holding compulsives in is 'Freedom from Importances', >>> the ability to have or not have any importance that one or anyone >>> else could ever imagine and come up with. One will always be the >>> master of their importances. Nothing can ever take that mastery >>> away. Accept that mastery, that ability, that 'FREEDOM'. KNOW IT! >>> And stop NOT KNOWING IT. Of course that decision, that command is >>> solely up to 'YOU'. >>> >>> Paul, keep on TROMming >>> >>> On Aug 12, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Pete Mclaughlin wrote: >>> >>> > ************* >>> > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> > ************ >>> > Hi Paul >>> > I agree and Dennis agrees. >>> > >>> > The to be known goals package is the basis of everything we >>> > perceive. All the stuff and junior goals are just the effects of >>> > the desire/postulate to be known. >>> > >>> > Sincerely >>> > Pete >>> > >>> > Sent from my iPad >>> > >>> >> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:45 AM, Paul Tipon <pti...@proftitleserv.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> ************* >>> >> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> ************ >>> >> Hi Pete, >>> >> >>> >> What you say below is true. >>> >> >>> >> However, one must have also imagined that they want to be a >>> >> something and then make that something known. This is where >>> >> importances come in for one has to imagine that they are going to >>> >> be a 'what' and then proceed with their effects of which they are >>> >> cause. But then there is also the idea that one wishes someone >>> >> other than themselves to be known and in this genre there is also >>> >> the idea that one may want something or someone somewhere that >>> >> already exists to be known. In this last situation there still >>> >> then remains the idea of being cause in order to create an >>> >> effect. Even if that cause is just to present something, that >>> >> something being themselves or some other object or subject. >>> >> >>> >> I bring this up because all the explanations being given are for >>> >> one's self and this is not always the case. Then too there may be >>> >> quite a convoluted idea that someone wants a fact (object or >>> >> subject) to be known with the objective that the one or ones >>> >> viewing the subject or object will also impart the idea that the >>> >> presenter is smart, knowledgeable, etc. >>> >> >>> >> I just wanted to keep this discussion on a more open plane. The >>> >> postulates of 'to be known' and 'to know' are very very broad in >>> >> application and are meant to be so in order that they encompass >>> >> all possibilities. >>> >> >>> >> Paul, keep on TROMming >>> >> >>> >>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 8:01 AM, Pete Mclaughlin wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> ************* >>> >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> Recent cognitions: >>> >>> >>> >>> To Be known is tightly bound up with creating effects. Imagine >>> >>> you are a ghost trying to haunt a house. If you do nothing no one >>> >>> knows you are there. But if you create effects like rattling >>> >>> chains, moaning, and carrying a light from room to room in the >>> >>> middle of the night then people will know you are there. >>> >>> >>> >>> Being known, for a Static, a spiritual being, requires causing >>> >>> effects that others can perceive. So "to be known" is tightly >>> >>> bound to creating an effect. However they are still separate >>> >>> postulates and if I want to not be known the best method is to >>> >>> not create effects that others can perceive. >>> >>> Of course that would be a no games condition that is hard to >>> >>> achieve for a compulsive games player. >>> >>> >>> >>> Keep on TROMing >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Trom mailing list >>> >>> Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Trom mailing list >>> >> Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Trom mailing list >>> > Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Trom mailing list >>> Trom@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >>> >>> End of Trom Digest, Vol 121, Issue 13 >>> ************************************* >>
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