www.tbred.com
>
>Ross Ferris
>Stamina Software
>Visage an Evolution in Software Development
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson
>>Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2004 1:21 PM
>>
This is a valuable thread, however, it doesn't belong on u2-users. Please continue
this thread on u2-community.
- Charles Barouch, Moderator
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Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:53 PM
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
> Back in the days of 8-bit computing, before the rise of MS-DOS, back in
the era of CP/M, MP/M and the "trash 80", there was an operating system with
an e
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>At 01:04 19/05/04, you wrote:
>>The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
>>
>>The Alert Centre (yes they really spelle
> -Kevin
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.PrecisOnline.com
You can't give us a teaser like that with no follow-up!
So what exactly was so insane?
Will
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Possibly the guy with the hand puppet who just keeped screaming "Don't answer me talk
to the puppet"!
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[EMAI
Dunno whether I should or not..At 11:38 19/05/04, you wrote:
>At 01:04 19/05/04, you wrote:
>>The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
>>
>>The Alert Centre (yes they really spelled it that way)
>What? Something wrong with correct spelling, now? ~8^))
Maybe he was talking about "Cent
In a message dated 5/18/2004 7:13:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> There was a lot more going wrong at the Alert Centre than bad database
> decisions. Quite possibly the most insane interview of my entire
> career.
>
> -Kevin
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.PrecisOnlin
ed.com
Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage an Evolution in Software Development
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson
>Sent: Wednesday, 19 May 2004 1:21 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [U2] Co
l Message -
From: "Jeff Schasny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
> The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
>
> The Alert Centre (yes they re
Nichol
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
Goo'day,
At 01:04 19/05/04, you wrote:
>The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
>
>The Alert Centre (yes they really spelled it that way)
Wha
>At 01:04 19/05/04, you wrote:
>>The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
>>
>>The Alert Centre (yes they really spelled it that way)
>What? Something wrong with correct spelling, now? ~8^))
Maybe he was talking about "Centre" being spelt the English way instead of
the American way "C
Goo'day,
At 01:04 19/05/04, you wrote:
The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
The Alert Centre (yes they really spelled it that way)
What? Something wrong with correct spelling, now? ~8^))
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Ve
The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
The Alert Centre (yes they really spelled it that way) was an security
<\snip>
Sorry - how else could they have spelt Alert ?
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I've been hoping someone else would mention the story of KHP Services.
They are still incarnated under their new name, though they have been
absorbed by another company. There is a theory that the company was
deliberately taken from a cash cow to a milk dud. The worst management I
ever have e
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff Schasny
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:04 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
>
> The Alert Centre, En
EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> Hello Dawn,
>
> At 11:22 AM 18/05/2004, Dawn M. Wolthuis wrote:
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> > > [EMAIL PROTE
The Alert Centre, Englewood CO USA, 1993 - 1996
The Alert Centre (yes they really spelled it that way) was an security
systems and alarm monitoring company. The had around 100 concurrent users
and ran on 2 redundant Sequoia boxes under Pick OA. Their applications
included the normal accounting f
From: "KevinJ Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:29 AM
> No, he was an idiot.
I only wrote the code that way 'cause you were my project manager and
directed me to do so.
What I saw too frequently in the code I helped maintain at Oxford was that
someone would start with a
ner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:59 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> In a message dated 5/17/2004 6:25:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wri
Of Dawn M.
> Wolthuis
> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:06 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
> unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previous
No, he was an idiot.
Kevin Jones
(315) 445-4270
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5/17/2004 8:00:28 PM >>>
>That said the there was some real bizarre PICK code. I saw one
program
>that updated a file one attribute at a time with 22 WRITEVU's in a
row
>occurring after every row was entered instead if one wri
Hello Dawn,
At 11:22 AM 18/05/2004, Dawn M. Wolthuis wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Colquhoun
> On the original point of dawn collecting material for future flame wars on
> comp.databases.theory:
You got me wro
In a message dated 5/17/2004 6:34:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> You got me wrong -- I'm not into flames, I'm just trying to learn why all
> database textbooks cling to theory related to SQL-based databases, teaching
> 1NF as if it were the only mathematically-valid app
In a message dated 5/17/2004 6:25:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I think that SQL-based DBMS's and the faith
> people have (and are taught to have) in the application of relational
> theories as THE way to approach data just might have something to do with
> the lack of
amen
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
In a message dated 5/17/2004 12:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Colquhoun
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 6:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-u2-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Firl
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> > Dawn IMHO its t
ssage-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
In a message dated 5/17/2004 12:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] w
al Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 1:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
There is a question about whether all databases are equal, just different,
or
> Dawn IMHO its the people. Good management gets good
> programmers and they make your business successful.
Amen to that. People (and not technology) are by far the biggest difference makers in
the success or failure of a project. Technology simply does what it does -- no more,
no less. I
>That said the there was some real bizarre PICK code. I saw one program
>that updated a file one attribute at a time with 22 WRITEVU's in a row
>occurring after every row was entered instead if one write after all of
>the data was updated.
>
[Ross Ferris]
I don't condone this practice, but I can i
At 02:59 AM 18/05/2004, Stevenson, Charles wrote:
>Read "Things You Should Never Do, Part I", by Joel Spolsky,
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog69.html, for an example
from Netscape. Search for "rewrite" in that site's archives for
articulate apologies for favoring old code.
In
In a message dated 5/17/2004 1:00:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
> While some folks think that the database product is irrelevant and it is the
> application that makes a difference
Dawn IMHO its the people. Good management gets good programmers and they make your
004 2:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
I must add my 2 cents to this MV migration thing.
One of my main clients just finished a year-long conversion from Results to
Great Plains. GP is basically QuickBooks on steroids compared to Res
I must add my 2 cents to this MV migration thing.
One of my main clients just finished a year-long conversion from Results to
Great Plains. GP is basically QuickBooks on steroids compared to Results.
Nice screens and lots of helper screens. But basically a mis-match on fields
and functionality. (R
ot; - H.H. the Dalai Lama
"When buying & selling are controlled by legislation, the first thing to be
bought & sold are the legislators" - P.J. O'Rourke
Dan Fitzgerald
From: "Dawn M. Wolthuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PR
Sent: May 17, 2004 9:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
These all sound like companies that had issues because management were morons, and not
because they used database X or Y.
Don Kibbey
Financial Systems Manager
Fin
It could be argued that only a moron would move from PICK/MV to Y
-Original Message-
From: Donald Kibbey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
These all
In a message dated 5/17/2004 12:23:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
> These all sound like companies that had issues because
> management were morons, and not because they used database X or Y.
> Don Kibbey
You know part of the problem IMHO is that it's a fine line to walk
In a message dated 5/17/2004 11:01:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
> Of course the purpose of Pulse (the Oracle software) was
> not to replicate the PICK system, but create a new vision.
Elaborate on this new vision.
Will
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> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> These all sound like companies that had issues because management were
> morons, and not because they used database X or Y.
>
>
> Don Kibbey
> Financial System
> From: Dawn M. Wolthuis
> I'm looking for information related to companies that moved
> or attempted to move from applications based on MV to Oracle
> or other relational databases and went belly up in the process.
I don't know that this is so much a "MV-to-Other" conversion phenomenon as a ge
In a message dated 5/17/2004 9:52:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
> What should also be mentioned is that this undertaking by Oxford was a
> nightmare in Project Management in that there was a steady stream of
> consultants through their revolving doors on both the Oracle a
These all sound like companies that had issues because management were morons, and not
because they used database X or Y.
Don Kibbey
Financial Systems Manager
Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner LLP
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-Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KevinJ Jones
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:56 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
>
> Here we go again. The annual Oxfor
IL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KevinJ Jones
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
Here we go again. The annual Oxford Health Plans Misconception.
Let me start with a moment of heresy. The migration to Oracle did
EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
Not belly up but had extreme difficulties (i.e. Oxford Health Plans). They
then wound up keeping some applications on MV since Oracle could not meet
the demands.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[m
of
the market than an end-user and incorporate it into their product.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of KevinJ Jones
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 8:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:05:37 -0500, you wrote:
>I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
>unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info.
>
>I'm looking for
, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:05:37 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have
been
> >unsuccessful, so sorry f
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Allen Egerton
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:05:37 -0500, you wrote:
>I've tried to search the archives for
There are one or two that are "going to" move - indeed have been "going to" for some
years. Mike Henderson's for one!
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I haven't heard of any that went belly up, but quite a few that have spent
much longer at a much greater cost than they anticipated. I'm sorry that
I can't really name any names - some are still clients.
That being said, I was involved in the early 70's with a MRP / Accounting
integrated package i
]
> Subject: Re: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
>
> On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:05:37 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
> >unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info.
> &
On Sun, 16 May 2004 09:05:37 -0500, you wrote:
>I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
>unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info.
>
>I'm looking for information related to companies that moved or attempted to
>move from applications based on MV to
:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info.
I'm looking for information related to companies that moved or at
ject: [U2] Companies going belly up converting from PICK/MV
I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info.
I'm looking for information related to companies that moved or attempted
to
move from applicatio
I've tried to search the archives for some old postings and have been
unsuccessful, so sorry for asking for previously posted info.
I'm looking for information related to companies that moved or attempted to
move from applications based on MV to Oracle or other relational databases
and went belly
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