David Starner wrote:
At 11:00 AM 8/8/02 -0700, David Possin wrote:
I have seen the German transliteration being 'schtsch' for
it, English
would be 'shtsh' with 'sh' spoken like sharp in both cases. The
German 'ch' sound is very different.
Shouldn't that be 'shch' for English? I've seen
Doug Ewell wrote:
And if you think that's bad, you should have seen the ones that got rejected --
special emphasized Hangul for writing the names of North Korean dictators
Not so outlandish as it may first appear. When Egyptian hieroglyphs get encoded in
Unicode, I would
not be surprised to
Hello Rick,
RC My native Russian speaker isn't available at the moment, but when she
RC pronounced U+0429 for me this morning, it sounded like a single phoneme. And
RC when I pronounced an ich-laut for her, she said it was the same sound.
Unfortunately, the latter experiment does not prove very
The French language uses backward accent order. Is backward accent order
used in any other language?
Regards,
Åke Persson
- Original Message -
From: Philipp Reichmuth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rick Cameron [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: OT: Re: Pronunciation of U+0429 (was RE: Digraphs as Distinct
Logical Uni ts)
German native
speakers are an extreme
Andrew C. West wrote of pharoahs and taboos.
Egyptian Hieroglyphic Encoding Proposal:
http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n1637/n1637.htm
Proposal to Add IDEOGRAPHIC TABOO VARIATION INDICATOR
to ISO/IEC 10646:
http://std.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n2475.pdf
Best regards,
James Kass.
Hello Philipp,
PR Hello Rick,
RC My native Russian speaker isn't available at the moment, but when she
RC pronounced U+0429 for me this morning, it sounded like a single phoneme. And
RC when I pronounced an ich-laut for her, she said it was the same sound.
There are two ways to pronounce
Anatoly Vorobey scripsit:
- historically, the [StS] pronunciation used to be universal in
Russian (this [StS] evolved from earlier proto-Slavic [St], IIRC; the
same letter denotes [St] in old Slavonic texts).
And in modern Bulgarian as well.
--
John Cowan
Rick Cameron wrote:
Is Щ pronounced in Russian something like the ich-Laut in German? I
not at all. first, Щ is a double consonant
believe
this sound is represented in IPA by /ç/. In TUS 2.0 it says that
/ɕ/
(U+0255) represents the sound spelled with ś (U+015B) in Polish,
I was thinking about Hessisch too, which is Frankfurt area and the
German Bundesland Hessen.
I think I can distinguish about 6 different dialects, each one has a
different pronunciation of 'ich'. If anybody is interested I can
organize a conference call offlist and we can listen to the various
David Possin wrote as follows.
quote
In German it was common to use a macron over m and n to show mm and nn,
I saw it being written this way up to the 1970's. But I never saw it
used for any other double letters.
Dave
end quote
There is a very interesting document entitled The Gutenberg
James Kass wrote:
Proposal to Add IDEOGRAPHIC TABOO VARIATION INDICATOR
to ISO/IEC 10646:
a
href=http://mail.alumni.princeton.edu//jump/http://std.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n2475.pdf;http://std.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC2/WG2/docs/n2475.pdf/a
Thanks for the reference.
There seem to be a couple of
Hello Radovan,
RG that is indeed the official pronunciation,
No, it really isn't!
RG and if you ask an (educated) Russian
RG speaker to slowly pronounce a word with [U+0429] he will pronounce it as
RG [StS]
No, he really won't!
RG but I guess it is influenced by orthography.
What's the
AFAIK reverse diacritic are unique to French -- of course French is spoken
in a lot of different locales. ;-)
MichKa
- Original Message -
From: Ake Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Unicode List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 3:58 AM
Subject: Backward accent order
The
I guess everybody know that the has genders in Germany: der, die, das
Now imagine the poor American arriving in Munich and stepping on a
Bavarian's toe:
Das die der Dei-bel hol
(I messed with the Bavarian spelling a bit to get my point across.)
I' bä a Schwob
(I learned German the first time
On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 03:54 AM, Andrew C. West wrote:
And in China, historically the personal names of emperors (for
emperors read dictators) have been
tabooed
An Ideographic Taboo Variation Indicator has been approved by the UTC
for addition to the standard to handle precisely
Andrew C. West andrewcwest at alumni dot princeton dot edu wrote:
And if you think that's bad, you should have seen the ones that got
rejected -- special emphasized Hangul for writing the names of
North Korean dictators
Not so outlandish as it may first appear. When Egyptian hieroglyphs
Stefan Persson wrote as follows (text ), responding to Andrew C. West (text
).
Personally I think that markup may be more appropriate, given the
countless possible permutations of
combining/superscript letters that may be encountered in mediaeval texts
in various languages.
Why not just add
Radovan Garabik wrote:
RG but I guess it is influenced by orthography.
What's the orthography got to do with it??
if the children in schools are taught that щ is pronounced
as шч, they (those who are paying atention) will remember it
and then use this pronunciation when asked to
- Original Message -
From: William Overington [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Stefan Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Andrew C. West
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Tildes on vowels
Well, why not go ahead and decide on two
John H. Jenkins wrote:
Yes, because you do not *encode* characters using IDC's. You describe
them. This is carefully explained in the standard.
I stand corrected.
Of course, using the taboo variant selector is about as vague as an
IDC, so it doesn't make that much difference.
My
John H. Jenkins wrote:
Of course, using the taboo variant selector is about as vague as an
IDC, so it doesn't make that much difference.
Actually, on second thoughts, why do we need a taboo variant selector when we already
have generic
variation selectors (U+FE00 through U+FE0F) ? The
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 07:16:09PM +0200, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
Radovan Garabik wrote:
RG but I guess it is influenced by orthography.
What's the orthography got to do with it??
if the children in schools are taught that щ is pronounced
as шч, they (those who are paying
On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 11:38 AM, Andrew C. West wrote:
My point is that if the commonly encountered taboo variants are
already encoded in CJK-B, then
either the other taboo variants should also be added to CJK-B or they
could be *described* using
IDCs.
Encoding them was a
Andrew C. West scripsit:
Given that there's going to be proposals for additional CJK symbols
and punctuation marks in the future (if no-one else does I've got a few
I'll propose), surely it would be better to simply create a CJK Symbols
and Punctuation B block for the proposed IDEOGRAPHIC
John Cowan wrote:
Blocks exist to keep things simple for allocators (i.e. UTC and WG2), and
not to allow end-users to make deductions about them; all such deductions
are quite illegitimate. (If this isn't actually written down anywhere,
it should be.)
Surely assigning a character to a
At 10:54 AM 8/9/02 -0700, Andrew C. West wrote:
Actually, on second thoughts, why do we need a taboo variant selector when
we already have generic
variation selectors (U+FE00 through U+FE0F) ? The Standardized Variants
document
http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/StandardizedVariants.html
Hello Radovan,
RG that is indeed the official pronunciation,
No, it really isn't!
RG not even if you ask your fellow innocent russian speakers
RG please read for me this word v e r y s l o w l y
RG and listen carefully?
No, it isn't.
The [StS] pronunciation has been considered a
Lest everyone go scrabbling off the deep end and drown on
this particular thread, I would like to point out the following
facts:
U+2FDF IDEOGRAPHIC TABOO VARIATION INDICATOR
was accepted by the UTC on April 30, 2002. However, when the
proposal was taken into WG2 it met a wall of opposition led
Andrew C. West scripsit:
It sounds to me that what you're suggesting is that characters should be allocated
sequentially from
U+ up, with no gaps. Would that not be the most simple solution for allocators !?
Only if they acted sequentially, which they did not and do not. Different
JC so unnatural to peoples with more phonemic orthographies.
Russian orthography is pretty *phonemic*, excluding historic forms such
as the -ogo genitive or the soft sign with the 2nd person singular of the
verb. Most accent-counting languages tend to reduce sounds rather
heavily in nonstressed
Philipp Reichmuth scripsit:
Russian orthography is pretty *phonemic*, excluding historic forms such
as the -ogo genitive or the soft sign with the 2nd person singular of the
verb. Most accent-counting languages tend to reduce sounds rather
heavily in nonstressed syllables, however, and in
and the first few sentences as well
Barry Caplan
www.i18n.com
http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/000599.html
How to Keep Out Bad Characters
By DeQuendre Neeley
The business world is one of constant motion. But it is not just people who are on the
move. It is also information.
I asked my catalonian contacs about this issue; something like
_
IMO, in catalan [L][·][L] is prefered to [L·][L] because L-dot is not
really a separate letter, like spanish ñ, but a simply separator just
like an ordinary -.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Andrew C. West wrote:
[re: proposed IDEOGRAPHIC TABOO VARIATION INDICATOR]
Given that there's going to be proposals for additional CJK symbols and
punctuation marks in the future (if no-one else does I've got a few I'll
propose), surely it would be better
Hello John,
Russian orthography is pretty *phonemic*, excluding historic forms such
as the -ogo genitive or the soft sign with the 2nd person singular of the
verb. Most accent-counting languages tend to reduce sounds rather
heavily in nonstressed syllables, however, and in those cases a
Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin antonio at tuvalkin dot web dot pt wrote:
Hm. But middle dot is not also a letter symbol. It's also used as a
bullet, a tab filling, even a box-drawing char. Shouldn't Unicode
provide a way to separate this duality?
It should, and does. Unicode has plenty of
Philipp Reichmuth uzsv2k at uni dash bonn dot de wrote:
What about round-trip compatibility?
UTC and WG2 apparently decided that some degree of compatibility with
this relatively new (1997) DPRK standard could be sacrificed. The
horizontal-bar fractions can be mapped to the existing Unicode
John Cowan jcowan at reutershealth dot com wrote:
ISO 10646 (but not Unicode) does have the notion of labelled
collections, which may be open (i.e. include currently unassigned
codepoints) or closed. Regrettably, I can't cite examples, as AFAIK
the list of collections is not online
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Doug Ewell wrote:
Re: Mixed up priorities
From: Michael Everson
Date: Sun Oct 24 1999 - 06:34:24 EDT
[...]
(I just love that name, don't you? I could say it all day, if only I
knew how. !Xóõ !Xóõ !Xóõ.)
-Doug Ewell
Fullerton, California
which makes one wonder
Roozbeh Pournader roozbeh at sharif dot edu wrote:
Was there anything decided about using variant selectors for selecting
exact shapes?
StandardizedVariants.html doesn't list anything for vulgar fractions. I
assume they decided the distinction wasn't worth making.
-Doug Ewell
Fullerton,
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