ith an '_' code point as an item that has two elements, while
something that looks like 'A' Should be atomic, and return a length
of one.
Precisely.
And instead of pushing for the impossible, the correct solution here
involves dividing and conquering:
1. If the issue is ju
s so deeply embedded in the array and vector logic of APL.
>
> That is counting the data size of arrays of "characters" (i.e., code
> units). If somebody tried to somehow teach ρ to do something different
> about characters, changing the concept of array of code units into
> so
On 8/18/2015 9:23 AM, Doug Ewell wrote:
Tom Gewecke wrote:
I guess the question is whether having a named sequence would somehow
make it easier for the gnu apl folks to add something to their system
so that their string length function sees such a sequence as having a
length of "1
Ken Whistler wrote:
> Returning to a historical note on the glyphic forms and the question
> of combining low lines or combining macrons below... admittedly a
> side note on this thread, the *original* identification of these APL
> uppercase Latin letters, at least in their IBM imp
Tom Gewecke wrote:
> I guess the question is whether having a named sequence would somehow
> make it easier for the gnu apl folks to add something to their system
> so that their string length function sees such a sequence as having a
> length of "1"?
I don't see wh
Returning to a historical note on the glyphic forms and the question
of combining low lines or combining macrons below... admittedly a
side note on this thread, the *original* identification of these APL
uppercase Latin letters, at least in their IBM implementations, was
clearly as uppercase
̲ <0041, 0332>
>
> neither sequence is listed in NamedSequences.txt, yet I can use them
> without limitation in this email and in plain text generally.
I guess the question is whether having a named sequence would somehow make it
easier for the gnu apl folks to add something to their sy
On 8/18/2015 6:18 AM,
alexwei...@alexweiner.com wrote:
"PUA"?
Private use area.
A./
PS: "underbar" is Swedish for "wonderful". Go figure.
Original Message
Subject: RE:
wrote:
> Since it seems that all hope of adding characters is lost, I think the
> next best goal would be to try an reach some sort of semblance between
> the Unicode Consortium and a nebulous group of people (APLers) who
> really believe that the uppercase under-bar letters are atomic and
> diff
ah yes. I believe the "private use area" was also suggested and may provide a
route to take
-Alex
Original Message
Subject: Re: APL Under-bar Characters
From: Leo Broukhis
Date: Aug 18, 2015 10:38 AM
To: alexwei...@alexweiner.com
CC: e...@iki.fi,charupd...@orange.f
http://www.acronymfinder.com/Information-Technology/PUA.html
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 3:18 PM, wrote:
> "PUA"?
>
> Original Message ----
> Subject: RE: APL Under-bar Characters
> From: "Erkki I Kolehmainen"
> Date: Aug 18, 2015 6:55 AM
> To
"PUA"?
Original Message
Subject: RE: APL Under-bar Characters
From: "Erkki I Kolehmainen"
Date: Aug 18, 2015 6:55 AM
To: "'Marcel Schneider'" ,"'Unicode Mailing List'"
CC: alexwei...@alexweiner.com
Mr. Sch
Mr. Schneider
Free Software Movement or not makes no difference. Furthermore, please consult
the membership roster of Unicode before making statements on what Unicode is a
consortium of.
You also state:
If underbar letters are for the sole use of GNU APL, their implementation and
font
tomicity is missing
> the point; A̲ is as atomic as Ä in Unicode's eyes.
IMHO the problem was aroused from GNU APL being implementing Unicode but still
hesitating (and seemingly even about to abandon). I just pick one e-mail out of
the archives (following Alex Weiner's invitation)
ht
On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 8:03 PM wrote:
> Pierpaolo,
>
> You make a very good observation. You are essentially asking the question
> that began the whole discussion. This is covered in depth in the gnuapl
> mailing list. You can go their archive, and just search my name :)
>
> Since it seems that
", is better than no list at all, right? Wouldn't the Unicode Consortium be the place for such a list, such as in NamedSequences.txt ?
Original Message ----
Subject: Re: APL Under-bar Characters
From: Pierpaolo Bernardi <olopie...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, August 17, 201
On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 12:32 AM, wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> I think I am going to suggest that GNUAPL use
> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/NamedSequences.txt
> as previously suggested as it seems like it may provide a way for GNUAPL to
> support characters with under-bars, and ease all
Subject: Re: APL Under-bar Characters
From: "Doug Ewell" <d...@ewellic.org>
Date: Mon, August 17, 2015 9:23 am
To: "Unicode Mailing List" <unicode@unicode.org>
wrote:
> I have heard that the problem was brought to Unicode consortium
> before, and th
's terms, each combining sequence (base character plus any
> number of combining characters) should be treated as a unit, regardless
> of whether the sequence has been assigned a name. So these sequences are
> indeed equivalent to the APL-specific "underlined letter" c
Neil Harris wrote:
> One small correction: U+0331 is COMBINING MACRON BELOW, not COMBINING
> MACRON.
Yes, thank you.
--
Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO 🇺🇸
On 17/08/15 17:23, Doug Ewell wrote:
In that case, despite the text in Section 22.7 that Ken quoted, it seems
that U+0331 COMBINING MACRON might be a better choice for APL
"underlined letters" than U+0332 COMBINING LOW LINE. Compare A̱ḆC̱
with A̲B̲C̲, noting that your font and render
as a unit, regardless
of whether the sequence has been assigned a name. So these sequences are
indeed equivalent to the APL-specific "underlined letter" characters
used in non-Unicode systems.
> Underline styling usually connects the line from one letter to another
> l̲i̲k̲e̲ ̲t̲h̲i
ctions to his blog post he wrote up ad hoc while he was angry about our
discussion here.
On 17 Aug 2015 at 02:25, Ken Whistler wrote:
> It isn't as if a bunch of ignorant Unicoders just grabbed one APL book off
> the shelf and coded up the table, not noticing that some stuff was
On 8/16/2015 6:57 PM,
alexwei...@alexweiner.com wrote:
Bug APL,
After much discussion with The Unicode
Consortium Mailing List,
Can we use this to give the characters
unique names
Bug APL,After much discussion with The Unicode Consortium Mailing List,Can we use this to give the characters unique names? It seems that they will never be given a new code point:http://www.unicode.org/Public/UCD/latest/ucd/NamedSequences.txt Then maybe we could work off that as a pseudo
http://unicode.org/policies/stability_policy.html , in particular, the
Normalization Policy. The way the APL A with underscore is encoded is the
way we've been saying, and Unicode has promised its users that there's no
other way of writing it.
The current precedent is that when use
David,I don't understand what you mean by saying that the standard is set. By Ken's account, The Consortium decided to create a policy specifically regarding this, by vote of APL (and I assume interested Unicode) users worldwide. The Standard itself is in version eight. Why does a vo
ave a
vote on whether or not APL should use characters with underlines, since I
was unfairly locked out of that vote by not being born yet.
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 5:52 PM wrote:
> Ken,
> You pose a very strong, and well worded response. The historical element
> really helps to illuminate
t the time of the ballot in 1993 and had much larger issues to deal with (comprehending speech, learning to walk, etc.), and was unable to participate in this internationally binding vote. Perhaps feelings about the under-bar characters have changed since then. I know that the APL landscape is very
Alex,
On 8/16/2015 12:41 PM, alexwei...@alexweiner.com wrote:
As far as I know, APL definitely predates the Unicode consortium. Do
you think that The Consortium possibly overlooked the pre-existing
under-bar character set?
The answer to that is no.
Initially, Unicode 1.0 attempted to
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:35:17 -0700
wrote:
> There is significant discussion about the problems of adding capital
> letters with individual under-bars in this mailing list for GNU APL.
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-apl/2015-08/msg00050.html
> Is there something I c
eturn 1.> > > So I'm not sure why the allowance was made for ä as well as other certain> characters, but not for other things (under-bar characters) that face> similar representation issues. It was encoded for compatibility of pre-existing character sets AFAIK.Regards,KhaledAs fa
Hi Ken,You are correct in observing that most APLers use upper and lower case. I know that one of the largest APL software firms in North America that uses a version of APL that contains under-bar characters (Juergen, I'll have an answer to the ⎕AV layout tomorrow) . It is a customized ve
It seems to me that APL has some very deeply embedded (and ancient)
assumptions about fixed-width 8-bit characters, dating from ASCII days.
It only got as far as it did with the current assumptions because people
hacked up 8-bit fonts for all the special characters for the APL syntax,
and because
On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 18:53:52 +0200
Khaled Hosny wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 09:31:25AM -0700, alexwei...@alexweiner.com
> wrote:
> > Now, the ä character has a precomposed form in Unicode, and if you
> > couple that with the NFC normalisation form, you'd get the above
> > _expression_ to re
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 09:31:25AM -0700, alexwei...@alexweiner.com wrote:
> Khaled,
> Thank you for the link. The normalization methods were already discussed,
> specifically here:
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-apl/2015-08/msg00047.html
Grapheme cluster boundari
Khaled,Thank you for the link. The normalization methods were already discussed, specifically here:http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-apl/2015-08/msg00047.htmlWhere the problem of "how big" is ä is discussed. The answer being that this is one symbol, because the Unicode Consortium de
On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 07:35:17AM -0700, alexwei...@alexweiner.com wrote:
> Hello Unicode Mailing List,
>
> There is significant discussion about the problems of adding capital letters
> with individual under-bars in this mailing list for GNU APL.
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/ar
Hello Unicode Mailing List,There is significant discussion about the problems of adding capital letters with individual under-bars in this mailing list for GNU APL. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-apl/2015-08/msg00050.htmlPretty much it adds up to the following problem:The string length
Rick McGowan wrote:
Does anyone know of a mapping table from APL character set to Unicode? I'm
looking for something that maps APL to Unicode numerically, in a format
similar to the various mapping tables on the Unicode site.
IBM CCSID 293 has a Unicode conversion table:
Does anyone know of a mapping table from APL character set to Unicode? I'm
looking for something that maps APL to Unicode numerically, in a format
similar to the various mapping tables on the Unicode site.
Thanks,
Rick
Re: Again sorry to talk about APL
* Dan Kolis
|
| APL and LISP are the deviants in expecting programs to be like
| mathematics and aspire to goals like provability;
Lisp is indeed a deviant among programming languages, but not in any
of the ways you suggest. The really sad thing about it is that nob
* Dan Kolis
|
| APL and LISP are the deviants in expecting programs to be like
| mathematics and aspire to goals like provability;
Lisp is indeed a deviant among programming languages, but not in any
of the ways you suggest. The really sad thing about it is that nobody
seems to be able to say
In the dewey decimal system numbers start at 1 for highest levels of
abstraction and go down to 999 for details. So theology is up in the 1,2,3
and steam engine operation around 600. Computer science is in the single
digits, and programming is around 621 or so.
APL and LISP are the deviants in
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Dan Kolis wrote:
> Thats what makes to s great and sooo weird,
And all these time I thought that Perl is greatest and the most weird.
With all the details you opened our eyes into, Perl is only a childish
toy in the obscurity world. ;)
--roozbeh
Dan,
If you are doing a lot of matrix arithmetic such as regression analysis it
is great. Unfortunately the last contract I had using APL was for forms
processing. That was as inappropriate as a program I saw that was and
English-Thai-English translator written as a DOS batch file.
With APL
"Carl W. Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>Say you wanted to do a table lookup. APL has no string operations so you
>are comparing a one dimensional character array against a two dimensional
>character array. You use an outer product multiply function substituting
&g
One interesting possibility for representing the APL italic characters would
be to use the math italic alphabet in plane 1. The motivation for their use
in APL is similar to that for the math case: the characters are separate
symbols, e.g., they don't get grouped into natural language words
John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frank da Cruz wrote:
> > The character set used by APL programming language includes special forms
> > of the uppercase Latin letters A-Z, usually italized and/or underlined.
>
> TUS3.0, pp. 302-03:
>
> # APL (A Programming
Frank da Cruz wrote:
> The character set used by APL programming language includes special forms
> of the uppercase Latin letters A-Z, usually italized and/or underlined.
TUS3.0, pp. 302-03:
# APL (A Programming Language) makes extensive use of functional symbols
# constructed by compo
Sorry for not remembering the outcome of previous discussions on this...
The character set used by APL programming language includes special forms
of the uppercase Latin letters A-Z, usually italized and/or underlined.
In an APL program, one might also need to include regular uppercase Latin
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