ч pronounced?
I believe it is pronounced like ш+ч (similar to German pronounciation of
"Borschtsch").
Wladislav
-Original Message-
From: Radovan Garabik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 10:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [unicode] Re[2]: Pronunciation
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 09:38:28PM +0200, Anatoly Vorobey wrote:
> The [StS] pronunciation has been considered a dialect pronunciation for >50
> years now. The "official", standard pronuncation is [S'], and has been
> for a long time.
in contrast to this, how do you pronounce 'жч' combination in
On 08/09/2002 01:01:10 PM Radovan Garabik wrote:
>> children are supposed to be already able to speak Russian when they go
to
>> school: I guess what they learn is "that sound has that letter", not the
>> other way round.
>
>I have no idea how it is in Russian school system, but:
>1) they can sp
Hello John,
>> Russian orthography is pretty *phonemic*, excluding historic forms such
>> as the -ogo genitive or the soft sign with the 2nd person singular of the
>> verb. Most accent-counting languages tend to reduce sounds rather
>> heavily in nonstressed syllables, however, and in those cases
Philipp Reichmuth scripsit:
> Russian orthography is pretty *phonemic*, excluding historic forms such
> as the -ogo genitive or the soft sign with the 2nd person singular of the
> verb. Most accent-counting languages tend to reduce sounds rather
> heavily in nonstressed syllables, however, and in
JC> so unnatural to peoples with more phonemic orthographies.
Russian orthography is pretty *phonemic*, excluding historic forms such
as the -ogo genitive or the soft sign with the 2nd person singular of the
verb. Most accent-counting languages tend to reduce sounds rather
heavily in nonstressed
Hello Radovan,
>> RG> that is indeed the "official" pronunciation,
>>
>> No, it really isn't!
RG> not even if you ask your fellow innocent russian speakers
RG> "please read for me this word v e r y s l o w l y"
RG> and listen carefully?
No, it isn't.
The [StS] pronunciation has been consi
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 07:16:09PM +0200, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
> Radovan Garabik wrote:
> > > RG> but I guess it is influenced by orthography.
> > >
> > > What's the orthography got to do with it??
> >
> > if the children in schools are taught that "щ" is pronounced
> > as "шч", they (those w
Marco Cimarosti scripsit:
> Uh!? Are you thinking about children from ethnic minorities? Russian
> children are supposed to be already able to speak Russian when they go to
> school: I guess what they learn is "that sound has that letter", not the
> other way round.
Russophones, like anglophones
Radovan Garabik wrote:
> > RG> but I guess it is influenced by orthography.
> >
> > What's the orthography got to do with it??
>
> if the children in schools are taught that "щ" is pronounced
> as "шч", they (those who are paying atention) will remember it
> and then use this pronunciation when
I asked the Russian consultants from Moscow to speak very slowly so I
would get any nuances. It was a very clear 's' to 'sh' sound. They said
that they knew of no [StS] version. It all sounds like a dialect issue
to me.
Dave
--- Radovan Garabik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at
EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 2:17 PM
> To: Otto Stolz; Rick Cameron
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: German 'ich' (was: Pronunciation of U+0429)
>
>
> I was thinking about Hessisch too, which is Frankfurt area and the
> German Bundesland H
ian living in Berlin)
-Original Message-
From: David Possin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 2:17 PM
To: Otto Stolz; Rick Cameron
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: German 'ich' (was: Pronunciation of U+0429)
I was thinking about Hessisch too, which is
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 03:47:40PM +0200, Anatoly Vorobey wrote:
> Hello Radovan,
>
> RG> that is indeed the "official" pronunciation,
>
> No, it really isn't!
>
not even if you ask your fellow innocent russian speakers
"please read for me this word v e r y s l o w l y"
and listen carefully
Hello Radovan,
RG> that is indeed the "official" pronunciation,
No, it really isn't!
RG> and if you ask an (educated) Russian
RG> speaker to slowly pronounce a word with [U+0429] he will pronounce it as
RG> [StS]
No, he really won't!
RG> but I guess it is influenced by orthography.
What's t
I was thinking about Hessisch too, which is Frankfurt area and the
German Bundesland Hessen.
I think I can distinguish about 6 different dialects, each one has a
different pronunciation of 'ich'. If anybody is interested I can
organize a conference call offlist and we can listen to the various
so
Rick Cameron wrote:
> Is Щ pronounced in Russian something like the ich-Laut in German? I
not at all. first, Щ is a double consonant
> believe
> this sound is represented in IPA by /ç/. In TUS 2.0 it says that
> /ɕ/
> (U+0255) represents the sound spelled with ś (U+015B) in Poli
Anatoly Vorobey scripsit:
> - historically, the [StS] pronunciation used to be universal in
> Russian (this [StS] evolved from earlier proto-Slavic [St], IIRC; the
> same letter denotes [St] in old Slavonic texts).
And in modern Bulgarian as well.
--
John Cowan <[
Hello Philipp,
PR> Hello Rick,
RC>> My native Russian speaker isn't available at the moment, but when she
RC>> pronounced U+0429 for me this morning, it sounded like a single phoneme. And
RC>> when I pronounced an ich-laut for her, she said it was the same sound.
There are two ways to pronounce
- Original Message -
From: "Philipp Reichmuth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rick Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: OT: Re: Pronunciation of U+0429 (was RE: Digraphs as Distinct
Logical U
Hello Rick,
RC> My native Russian speaker isn't available at the moment, but when she
RC> pronounced U+0429 for me this morning, it sounded like a single phoneme. And
RC> when I pronounced an ich-laut for her, she said it was the same sound.
Unfortunately, the latter experiment does not prove ve
David Starner wrote:
> At 11:00 AM 8/8/02 -0700, David Possin wrote:
> >I have seen the German transliteration being 'schtsch' for
> it, English
> >would be 'shtsh' with 'sh' spoken like "sharp" in both cases. The
> >German 'ch' sound is very different.
>
> Shouldn't that be 'shch' for English?
Rick Cameron wrote:
> At http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/kons/n-2.htm you can find
> audiovisual samples for the consonants of the Russian alphabet. The entry
> for U+0429 (which they write as Ш') sure looks and sounds like an ich-laut
> to me.
Are you referring to the German standard prono
Cheers
- rick
-Original Message-
From: David Possin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2002 14:27
To: Frank da Cruz
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of U+0429 (was RE: Digraphs as Distinct Logical
Uni ts)
Ok, three Russians gave me the pronunciation &#
Ok, three Russians gave me the pronunciation 's-ch', it sounds almost
like English 'sh', and when they transliterate to English they use
'sch'. The 'ch' part did not sound like the German "ich-laut", more
like 's' turning into 'sh'.
Dave
--- Frank da Cruz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I will ta
> I will take a walk to the other side of our building and visit a
> Russian software consulting company (they represent Russian software
> companies in the US). Let's see how many different opinions I'll get
> there. ;-)
>
Yes, please! I had four different Russian teachers and one of them
was R
It is getting quite hard to make the fine differences of sounds visible
with a few Latin letters.
In a different email Rick points out that my version is too hard, that
he has been told the sound is even softer, like 'shdsh' maybe? My feel
would be that using 'ch' or even 'tch' would make it hard
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