not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Long read, but worth the effort: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/ -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subsc

not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Hi All, Lagi Pittas wrote: > That's why I said the Function part would be good - > basically a LIVE interactive debugger - the coding > to do all the rest in a REAL programming language > rather than an animation studio or a testbed is way > out of my league - But given time and money anything > i

not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Ralph wrote: > This is possible because all current consumer OSs > have the same problems outlined in the article. Deep truth, but... Are you sure that hardware is not to blame for many of these unexplained bugs? Intermittent hardware failures, due to faulty soldering or overheating (etc...) are

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Good read.Thanks! > > On Sep 30, 2017 at 12:31 PM, (mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com)> wrote: > > > > Long read, but worth the effort: > https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/09/saving-the-world-from-code/540393/ > -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

On 09/30/2017 11:58 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: Good read.Thanks! Oops. I forgot to post a link to Bret Victor's talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWM4t68cR4 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode m

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

> Mark Wieder wrote: > Oops. I forgot to post a link to Bret Victor's talk: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxWM4t68cR4 Thanks for this valuable link. Very impressing thoughts there. The most interesting for me: His first three demos are very close to LCB (as LCB is close to javascript with the

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

I posted a link to Bret Victor in may (and forgot the link like Mark). I thought there would be more feedback but the only one was a request by Richmond for the link. I didn't expand on this - but my reasoning is that we are partly there and as Herman suggests using LCB certain of the "algorithm d

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

This article is exactly why I contend that man can never travel to other planets never mind solar systems, and colonize them. The complexity of something so vast as to be able to get us there would be failing all the time, and we would have to be able to anticipate those failures, and take repai

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Hi Bob That's why I said the Function part would be good - basically a LIVE interactive debugger - the coding to do all the rest in a REAL programming language rather than an animation studio or a testbed is way out of my league - But given time and money anything is possible Except .. A

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Does exists a programming tool that provides the developer > with a complete (but optional) battery of tests that run while > opening the application or on user request after the application > is opened? I've found logging useful. Turn on the messageMessages and write a

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

No, I am sure we put men on the moon. But we didn't stay there and there are no plans to actually colonize it. And the resources just to do that were "astronomical" (pardon the pun). There was of cource some redundancy, but some things cannot be repaired, as we learned with Apollo 13. Oh we patc

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those thousands of people from talking or writing a book. You see, conspiracies must by nature be extr

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Bob Sneidar wrote: > Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either > deceived the thousands of people who worked on the project, and keeps > them deceived to this day, or else were able to keep all those > thousands of people from talking or writing a book. Arithmetically unli

RE: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

>For many years, we have seen in this mail list (and previous mail list) how developers are completely baffled by applications that run fine in most computers, but fail >consistently in a very few machines. Check the archives. You will find many instances of this scenario. How it is that possible a

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Nice article, but his example of the Snowden revelations actually proves my point. Bob S > On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:20 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > Bob Sneidar wrote: > > > Well then the REAL miracle to the moon launch is how Nasa either > > deceived the thousands of people

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Yes, it very much supports your point. What tickled me about it was his attempt to quantify the challenge of keeping a large-scale conspiracy under wraps. Personally, I wouldn't have chosen the Snowden story as the baseline; too much still unknown and relatively little corroborated. Iran-Con

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Hi, I am well up on the argument of secrecy and that article - falls down in the first few paragraphs with the vaccines - you probably haven't heard of the whistleblowers - Gus Grissom comes to mind http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-researcher-blog/link-between-vaccines-and-african-american-boys-

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

The simplest of strawman arguements. :-) Bob S > On Oct 3, 2017, at 14:21 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode > wrote: > > If you want my take on the secrecy issue I might expand - "A man convinced > against his will is of the same opinion still". > > Regards Lagi __

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Hi Richard, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I've found logging useful. Turn on the messageMessages > and write all messageHandled messages to a file with the > executionContexts - verbose, but when information is lacking > better to have too much than too little. Great to know! Thanks for this informati

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

It would really enhance my LiveCode email group experience if I could STOP reading about the fake moon landing and vaccines. Besides, the moon is made of green CHEESE !! .Jerry > On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:21 PM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode > wrote: > > Hi, > > I am well up on the argument of se

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> I've found logging useful. Turn on the messageMessages >> and write all messageHandled messages to a file with the >> executionContexts - verbose, but when information is lacking >> better to have too much than too little. > > Great to know! Tha

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Richard Gaskin wrote: > They're still undocumented, designed for IDE use > and subject to change. Ok, that explains why Google could not find any information about this. Maybe this info could help developers that are having trouble with their mobile apps. Could we save our log files and sent them

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> They're still undocumented, designed for IDE use >> and subject to change. > > Ok, that explains why Google could not find > any information about this. > > Maybe this info could help developers that are having > trouble with their mobile apps. C

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

"because dead programmers don't write good code." More to the point, Astronauts (c.f. end-users) usually don't know how to write code at all. Richmond. On 10/3/17 9:59 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: No, I am sure we put men on the moon. But we didn't stay there and there are no plan

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

"magical unicorns crapped the world into existence." But they did: where have you been recently? Just as LiveCode 8.1.6 just spontaneously appeared without Homo Africanus (HyperCard), Home Erectus (Metacard) and a lot of subsequent depilation. Richmond. On 10/3/17 10:06 pm, Bob Sneidar via us

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Why do I have a feeling that once a system constructed by humans reaches a certain level of complexity those humans are unable to predict how it will behave in certain circumstances. We humans have, largely got ourself in trouble by starting to think we can explain everything, and I have a vi

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

> Richmond wrote: > > once a system constructed by humans reaches a certain level of complexity > those humans are unable to predict how it will behave in certain > circumstances. And sometimes we’re unable to explain WHY a system behaved as it did, which is increasingly common with certain AI

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

To which I will add as a side note, once we know everything, there will be no more opinions or opposing views. :-) Bob S > On Oct 4, 2017, at 09:12 , Jim Lambert via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Richmond wrote: >> >> once a system constructed by humans reaches a certain level of complexity >>

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Except people will always want what they want. As I understand it, that drives disagreements far more than the absence/presence of knowledge. (James 4:1 ) Sorry, I couldn't resist... I just HAD to respond to your tongue-in-cheek comment... Guess th

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Well, in that case I sincerely hope we never know everything. Although, how, without our finite brains/minds we would manage that escapes me entirely. Richmond. On 10/4/17 8:10 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: To which I will add as a side note, once we know everything, there will be

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Knowledge is not the only thing one can hold opinions about: anything subjective such as ethics or aesthetics . . . Richmond. On 10/4/17 8:45 pm, Phil Davis via use-livecode wrote: Except people will always want what they want. As I understand it, that drives disagreements far more than the ab

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Hi Lagi, The Apollo Astronauts left “Laser Reflectors” on the moon so that we could very accurately measure the distance between the Earth and the Moon. If you get the right equipment you too can do this experiment. The reflectors are still there on the moon right where they left them. https://e

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Actually, since we weren't able to get there, we had to give them to the aliens who were running the CIA at the time, and they dropped them off. That way we can maintain the deception pretty convincingly. Bob S > On Oct 4, 2017, at 16:18 , Rick Harrison via use-livecode > wrote: > > Hi Lag

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Sitcom version of the laser reflector experiment (on "The Big Bang Theory"). :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL1OATdBoY8 On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 7:18 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Lagi, > > The Apollo Astronauts left “Laser Reflectors” on th

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Hi Roger, They failed to mention LiveCode though, which was disappointing. If anyone writes a software package with LiveCode so that we can duplicate the laser reflector experiment, let me know! ;-) Thanks for sharing! Rick > On Oct 5, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode > wrote: >

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

You called Jerry? I think probably the time has come to end this admittedly entertaining thread. I think I need to add "conspiracy theories" to the banned topic list for this list, which may I remind you all includes Politics, Religion and Cheese. Move along please folks, lets take it back to

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

On 10/05/2017 09:26 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: Hi Roger, They failed to mention LiveCode though, which was disappointing. If anyone writes a software package with LiveCode so that we can duplicate the laser reflector experiment, let me know! ;-) Yeah. That would be bitchin'. ...

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

The moon is a myth. ;-) Bob S > On Oct 5, 2017, at 14:29 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: > > On 10/05/2017 09:26 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Roger, >> They failed to mention LiveCode though, which was disappointing. >> If anyone writes a software package with LiveC

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

On 10/05/2017 09:32 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: I think probably the time has come to end this admittedly entertaining thread. Thanks, Heather. Time to put this one to bed. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailin

Re: not really OT: The Coming Software Apocalypse

Thanks for the link, which was very interesting. There is a quite deep insight there about what made Hypercard so inviting, and why LC is so accessible. Its not just drag and drop, its working directly with the thing one is making. Of course you still end up typing a lot of text, but these syste