Indeed... my students are always mystified when, as I'm moving about the
lab and trying to stomp out forest-fires-to-be, and I test various script
improvements using cd, etc... And they're largely CS-majors!
I've adopted myself to the habit, but it does confuse people at the
introductory level...
Reminds me of a line in a song done Ella Louis, by among others:
You say patahto and I say potayto.. let's call the whole thing off.
Jim Wall
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On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 06:02 AM, j wrote:
Those who don't know something about programming cling to metaphors
they understand.
Maybe. So they should be excluded from exploring programming? That
smacks of elitism.
Just the opposite. I never said they should be excluded. I'm saying
This is so not true. Libraries use cards, Teachers use cards, People
play cards even Suddam was on a card. The notion of a card being
obvious is hardly elitism. The person you are explaining this to would
have to have never been to school or the library or even watch TV (the
Tele) in order to
Your vote will have little influence on my style unless you get the
engine folks to get rid of full words.
And, of course, if you're not really sure of the nature of the beast,
you can simply:
put thisData into part dataMunger
;-)
Ray G. Miller
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sure can't dynamic script in assembly now can you?
X (w/o limits)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dar Scott
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 18:50
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Screen vs Page vs Card
On Monday, March 29
On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 08:25 PM, Judy Perry wrote:
You all are thinking in terms of people who already know something
about
programming.
I'm thinking about those who don't.
Those who don't know something about programming cling to metaphors
they understand. Those who do know insist
Those who don't know something about programming cling to metaphors
they understand.
Maybe. So they should be excluded from exploring programming? That
smacks of elitism. I sincerely hope I am just reading it wrong. One
is bound to run into plenty of HyperCard fanatics (myself included) who
Judy Perry wrote:
I disagree, FWIW. Conceptually, the two sets are *very different*.
Books are necessarily LINEAR. How do you explain a non-linear book?
(Okay, you can present the case of an encyclopedia or dictionary, but
they're the *exception*, not the norm).
I would only advocate _adding_
Hmm... if we are talking confusion here, what about all those Fortran
types who think of a card as a punch card, i.e. a single line of code?
Actually, although I mentioned screen as being a synonym for card, I
was NOT advocating switching to this term in the actual Transcript
language.
Up
At 9:27 am -0500 29/3/04, Marian Petrides wrote:
I'm not even sure permissively allowing use of 'screen and page
as alternatives would be a benefit because then you would have
people on this list using a variety of different terms for the same
thing--very confusing for the neophyte in particular.
Some people still use Rolodex's (I saw some at Walmart just yesterday).
People still play with actual playing cards.
No mindreading here...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, Dar Scott wrote:
Those who don't know something about programming cling to metaphors
they understand. Those who do know insist
I agree...Lots of people still use index cards as flash cards. House
officers--interns and residents--use them to keep patient data. Index
cards aren't quite dead yet.
On Mar 29, 2004, at 11:55 AM, Judy Perry wrote:
Some people still use Rolodex's (I saw some at Walmart just yesterday).
On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 10:46 AM, Dave Cragg wrote:
I'm even uncomfortable with many of the alternative shorthand forms
such as cd when I see them in other people's scripts.
Me, too. But, I'm a touch typist and I recognize that others struggle
with the keyboard. It might be an in crowd
On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
I agree...Lots of people still use index cards as flash cards. House
officers--interns and residents--use them to keep patient data. Index
cards aren't quite dead yet.
Some people still use Rolodex's (I saw some at Walmart just
I'm even uncomfortable with many of the alternative shorthand forms
such as cd when I see them in other people's scripts.
Me, too. But, I'm a touch typist and I recognize that others struggle
with the keyboard. It might be an in crowd jargon for some folks,
but I suspect it is to minimize
On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 10:56 AM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is no way, I'm going to force the card metaphor on my customers.
I learn the terms of their domain.
Dar Scott
That is the key to being successful.
1. Knowing your client's jargon.
2. Being able to address their needs in
I don't know why this subject has taken a 'card' bashing tone...I simply
asked if we could please implement the use of 'page' IN ADDITION TO
'card'...get it?
:-(
JR
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On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 01:14 PM, John Rule wrote:
I don't know why this subject has taken a 'card' bashing tone...I
simply
asked if we could please implement the use of 'page' IN ADDITION TO
'card'...get it?
:-(
I think the assumption is that such a suggestion is disrespectful to
card.
Which you, presumably, as a developer of *customized* solutions can well
afford to do. But you can't make a general tool like Rev all things to
all people or a programming language version of th Tower of Babel. It
cannot both incorporate all domains AND be teachable/learnable.
You can see this
And with dramatically slower processors, I rather imagine...
Judy
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004, j wrote:
For some, it is possibly a hold over from the days when xTalk scripts
could only be 32k per object, necessitating as much squeezing of the
code as possible.
Yes, I get it... but if this were done for everything, every code
word with an analog elsewhere in every other language (different analogs,
it should be mentioned -- card? screen? panel? window? do we really need
4+ referencing words that now, because they're reserved, cannot be used
in any other
What name calling? I didn't say he was elitist, merely that people who
frown on someone else's tool because it uses words like card etc. are
elitist.
My arguments are simply:
(1) you can't add every possible keyword analog in every other language to
Rev's language and expect it to be
on ratUp
put fld Recipe of card 1 of stack 1 into cardMethod
put fld Chapter of page 1 of book 1 into pageMethod
put fld LeftQuadrant of screen 1 of monitor 1 into screenMethod
put fld Switches of panel 1 of display 1 into panelMethod
put fld Slices of pickle 1 of jar 1 into
Howdy,
I'm even uncomfortable with many of the
alternative shorthand forms such as cd when I see them in other
people's scripts.
-
I wouldn't waste any time worrying about that. Shorthand forms cd, bg, fld,
and many other standard ones have been in use for over 16 years. If someone
On Monday, March 29, 2004, at 07:01 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts, but I vote for continuation of standard
shorthand
forms.
Your vote will have little influence on my style unless you get the
engine folks to get rid of full words.
Dar
What name calling? I didn't say he was elitist, merely that people who
frown on someone else's tool because it uses words like card etc. are
elitist.
To be honest, I did use the word first when referring to a line in one
of Dar Scott's posts to the list. I said a statement smacked of
elitism.
I don't think he's talking about you.
I *did* use the term, but in reference to someone else (John Rule maybe? I
don't recall, but it wasn't IN REFERENCE to John Rule IIRC) noting the
scorn heaped upon him/her for using a development tool which used cards
and/or stacks. I said something to the
When I talk to people not familiar with Hypercard, I typically use the
term screen which I think is better than page because it is more
specific (page implies paper, screen implies video display of some
sort).
On Mar 28, 2004, at 5:57 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 03:03
On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 03:59 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
When I talk to people not familiar with Hypercard, I typically use the
term screen which I think is better than page because it is more
specific (page implies paper, screen implies video display of some
sort).
I agree. However,
Dar Scott wrote:
On Sunday, March 28, 2004, at 03:59 PM, Marian Petrides wrote:
When I talk to people not familiar with Hypercard, I typically use the
term screen which I think is better than page because it is more
specific (page implies paper, screen implies video display of some sort).
I
I disagree, FWIW. Conceptually, the two sets are *very different*.
Books are necessarily LINEAR. How do you explain a non-linear book?
(Okay, you can present the case of an encyclopedia or dictionary, but
they're the *exception*, not the norm).
You all are thinking in terms of people who
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