Do you have a URL for this Dice reference? That is interesting.
Thanks.
Jack
On Apr 4, 2005 9:45 AM, NetSQL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Benedict, Paul C wrote:
>
> It is very difficult to divorce that little phrase from the general
> > implication that we should all move away from Struts in
Benedict, Paul C wrote:
It is very difficult to divorce that little phrase from the general
implication that we should all move away from Struts in new projects. I do
not think it is true.
+1.
One can look at Dice new jobs on new projects and see what % is for
Struts and what % is JSF. Go look
Rick Reumann wrote:
For the record, so others don't think I'm a die-hard Struts or JSF
person, the prediction Jack made was in reference to a question by Dave:
"Anyway, how come no one is saying that the future is Struts 1.3 or
1.4? Why all the hoopla about the future IS JSF?"
I didn't ask that,
lay this to rest now. :) I am putting down my pen. Finito.
-Original Message-
From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:04 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: [OT] Re: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same
Time?
Dakota Jack wrote
Dakota Jack wrote the following on 4/1/2005 8:03 PM:
On Apr 1, 2005 12:01 PM, Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Because you get yelled at when you say that and some people cannot
take being yelled at. Expect Craig, Ted, or someone to say the
standard thing soon on this tread. I know I am do
The Struts tags still scratch my itch and I have applied a few changes in
the past year (including some re-factoring).
http://www.niallp.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/strutsversion126.html
Having said that, my open source time is limited so I'm not promising masses
of changes, but I don't yet see them
Craig McClanahan wrote:
On Apr 2, 2005 8:38 AM, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote "I have no interest
in JSF". It probably sounded harsh.
The truth is, I want both Struts and JSF in my toolbox. I don't want on
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > This is a deviation from the topic slightly, but is related to struts
> > > and jsf.
> > >
> > > With struts there's the clear idea of having all you view tier beans
> > >
a deviation from the topic slightly, but is related to struts and
> > jsf.
> >
> > With struts there's the clear idea of having all you view tier beans
> > (actionforms) that have nothing to do with the model, and so on.
> >
> > With JSF the conversions ar
On Apr 3, 2005 2:34 AM, Mark Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Craig
>
> This is a deviation from the topic slightly, but is related to struts and
> jsf.
>
> With struts there's the clear idea of having all you view tier beans
> (actionforms) that have nothing
Craig
This is a deviation from the topic slightly, but is related to struts and jsf.
With struts there's the clear idea of having all you view tier beans
(actionforms) that have nothing to do with the model, and so on.
With JSF the conversions are taken care of, would persisting backing
On Apr 2, 2005 8:38 AM, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote "I have no interest
> in JSF". It probably sounded harsh.
>
> The truth is, I want both Struts and JSF in my toolbox. I don't want one
> to
I was playing a bit of devil's advocate when I wrote "I have no interest
in JSF". It probably sounded harsh.
The truth is, I want both Struts and JSF in my toolbox. I don't want one
to supplant the other.
I have a couple of JSF questions.
1) I do a lot of Swing work
On Apr 2, 2005 6:33 AM, Mark Lowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
.
> If you see how the form validation and type conversion happens in JSF
> I cant really see how anyone can argue that this isn't progress.
This is like arguing that a semi-truck is an improvement over the
automobile because it ha
I usually develop with struts, and have been constantly evaluating JSF
to see when the time in right to do everything with JSF. As someone
who's pretty cynical about new this and that, the ever changing "world
according to sun" and so on, I like JSF. As a means of creating
complex forms its obvious
We would do things your way, and things would be just great then,
Brian, but you forgot to tell us how we should do things. So we will
all have to muddle by in the ways we can manage, and, additionally,
have to suffer your approbation because you have abandoned us just
when you can see we most nee
Dakota Jack wrote:
I have no problem with the diversity. I think that Sun is making an
error following NET rather than leading the way with a truly new
web-MVC product. They should hire Rod Johnson and whomever he wants
to work with and let him go to town doing something that will stand
the test
On Apr 1, 2005 12:01 PM, Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Because you get yelled at when you say that and some people cannot
> take being yelled at. Expect Craig, Ted, or someone to say the
> standard thing soon on this tread. I know I am doing my part. LOL
> ///;-)
>
> Jack
You saw
On Apr 1, 2005 3:07 PM, Rick Reumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frank W. Zammetti wrote the following on 4/1/2005 3:48 PM:
I think it's quite low to state that: '(Craig has) taken
> every opportunity to tell everyone that JSF is in fact "the future."'
> this is an untrue statement - I think he's
Rick Reumann wrote:
And Frank, you and plenty of others, constantly let us now how JSF is
horrible.
Actually, I defy you to find a reference where I have flat-out bashed
JSF. I have expressed concerns, and I have, I'm sure, said I'm not so
certain some of the basic concepts behind it are good
Frank W. Zammetti wrote the following on 4/1/2005 3:48 PM:
I think there is little question that you have taken every opportunity
to tell everyone that JSF is in fact "the future". There is no doubt in
my mind that you actually believe that.
And Frank, you and plenty of others, constantly let
On Apr 1, 2005 2:37 PM, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dakota Jack wrote:
> > That does not mean it is horrible, of course, but it is about as new
> > as "Lost in Space" is new on TV. Remember that robot that always went
> > "Crisis! Crisis!"? LOL
>
> It was "Danger! Danger!",
t-out stating how important
the success of JSF is to him personally, there is, I think, reason to be
a bit more cautious than we otherwise might be.
But, given my role in both Struts and JSF (I was co-spec-lead for JSF
1.0), I would hope people consider me to be in category (1) on the
above classi
Dakota Jack wrote:
That does not mean it is horrible, of course, but it is about as new
as "Lost in Space" is new on TV. Remember that robot that always went
"Crisis! Crisis!"? LOL
It was "Danger! Danger!", which applies just about as well :)
Anyway, I think a lot of the hype and a lot of the r
Woodchuck wrote:
i think what is irking a lot of people in the community is the *way* in
which JSF is being marketed. oooh, i would even go so far as to say
that the evangelism is Microsoft-esque, but in a subtler way.
I think that is exactly the crux of it.
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief
I think that Craig came up with Template Method pattern and that
necessitated CoR, if I am not mistaken.
Hopefully CorR, which is old as the hills, is merely a temporary
solution to the difficulties caused by the use of the Template Method
pattern and hopefully this is just so in the extensible re
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
It strikes me as nothing more than a bunch of marketing-speak
in place of substantive discussion.
I agree.
I also respect and admire Craig and know that he has indirectly put
money in my pocket.
But... he has an itch for JSF and he will go that way, and it's a loss
for
position for *you* to be in is category (1) -- try it out, and see if
> it meets your own needs, and use it *if* it does.
>
> > I think there is little question that you have taken every
> opportunity
> > to tell everyone that JSF is in fact "the future". There
I think that JSF has been around long enough from inception (2001) to
now (2005) to tell whether or not it is the Cats Meow. It isn't.
That does not mean it is horrible, of course, but it is about as new
as "Lost in Space" is new on TV. Remember that robot that always went
"Crisis! Crisis!"? L
won't wind up being right! Time will tell.
One could say that, beyond just saying this, I'm betting my career on
it. My "day job" is being architect for Sun Java Studio Creator, a
product that is very much based on JSF.
But, given my role in both Struts and JSF (I was co-spec-
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> Craig McClanahan wrote:
>
>> Feel free to continue using Struts, however, if that floats *your* boat.
>
>
> It's not really as simple as that though, is it Craig?
>
> You have a great deal of sway, your opinion carries a lot of weight.
> You have earned that without ques
The fact is that some people say JSF is great and some say it sucks.
Some of those without much love for it are people who know what they
are talking about. I don't know anyone without a stake and who has
huge standing in the community that talks up JSF. If there is, then
that would be good to k
On Apr 1, 2005 12:23 PM, Craig McClanahan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2005 11:20 AM, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Struts 1.x has been in development for very close to five years (1.0
> was initially released just about four years ago). We've all learned
> a few things, in th
Craig McClanahan wrote:
Feel free to continue using Struts, however, if that floats *your* boat.
It's not really as simple as that though, is it Craig?
You have a great deal of sway, your opinion carries a lot of weight.
You have earned that without question. So by you making proclamations,
even
Benedict, Paul C wrote:
To Jack's point, doing a *new* application in both Struts and JSF seems like
a ludicrous design. So if you are going to develop a new application and
favor JSF UI tags in it, doesn't that imply a goal to developing in pure
JSF?
Well... yep, it seems to.
I gue
K, Dave, K
On Apr 1, 2005 12:11 PM, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dakota Jack wrote:
>
> >No, Dave, the topic started out to be about Struts and JSF. The two
> >solutions, JSF and Struts, even if Craig got JSF into the Struts camp
> >with Shale, are com
solution. Time
will tell.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be
wrong.
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
Erik Weber wrote:
I agree. I thought, Craig, that you until recently were interested in
Struts and JSF coexist
Dave,
>>Ooo, hrm. All he really said was that the HTML tags are legacy;
obviously Struts development marches on.
To Jack's point, doing a *new* application in both Struts and JSF seems like
a ludicrous design. So if you are going to develop a new application and
favor JSF UI tags in
On Apr 1, 2005 11:20 AM, Erik Weber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I agree. I thought, Craig, that you until recently were interested in
> Struts and JSF coexisting, meaning that both would grow, even if you
> were no longer the active leader of Struts.
There is an integration librar
Dakota Jack wrote:
No, Dave, the topic started out to be about Struts and JSF. The two
solutions, JSF and Struts, even if Craig got JSF into the Struts camp
with Shale, are competely antithetical.
The post I responded to was specifically about how the struts HTML tags
were legacy and hadn&#
Benedict, Paul C wrote:
Unless I am wrong (I may be!), I think the implicit point is not to use
Struts for future projects. Since JSF provides backing beans, validation,
heavy user interface controls (all Struts equivalents), I can see why
someone would promote JSF over Struts.
Ooo, hrm. Al
future is Struts 1.3 or 1.4? Why
> all the hoopla about the future IS JSF?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Newton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:31 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the S
On Apr 1, 2005 11:08 AM, Dave Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Benedict, Paul C wrote:
>
> >Thank you for the response and advice. I will take this into consideration,
> >but I have a difficult time accepting that the future is JSF. Despite it's
> >acceptance as a standard, I don't feel any com
No, Dave, the topic started out to be about Struts and JSF. The two
solutions, JSF and Struts, even if Craig got JSF into the Struts camp
with Shale, are competely antithetical. Read the MASTER HISSELF, Rod
Johnson, in J2EE Development without EJB on Struts and JSF, Shale, or
whatever. I have
Who he is, Dave, is someone paid by the people bringing you JSF. Doh!
I think I will just have to do my own evaluation all by myself, and
then I can say "The best thing about it is that I did it myself".
Like they said about me in the 3rd grade: he always does a little more
than asked. ///;-)
I agree with this. The html tags are boss.
On Apr 1, 2005 6:45 AM, NetSQL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Craig McClanahan wrote:
>
> >
> > I would caution new projects, however, to *not* use the Struts HTML
> > tags. That part of Struts has received fairly little developer
> > attention, and shou
Sure you can. It is just the same as coding both .NET and Sruts.
Nuts, but you can do it.
Jack
On Mar 30, 2005 7:30 AM, Caroline Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am working on a big J2EE project. The project is at
> its initial stage. The leaders of the project have not
> quite made up their
Original Message-
From: Dave Newton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:31 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?
Erik Weber wrote:
> I agree. I thought, Craig, that you until recently were interest
Erik Weber wrote:
I agree. I thought, Craig, that you until recently were interested in
Struts and JSF coexisting, meaning that both would grow, even if you
were no longer the active leader of Struts.
I don't think anybody said anything about not using Struts; we were
discussing the Struts
I agree. I thought, Craig, that you until recently were interested in
Struts and JSF coexisting, meaning that both would grow, even if you
were no longer the active leader of Struts.
As a developer, I have no interest in JSF, but am interested in Struts 1.3.
Erik
Benedict, Paul C wrote:
Craig
Benedict, Paul C wrote:
Thank you for the response and advice. I will take this into consideration,
but I have a difficult time accepting that the future is JSF. Despite it's
acceptance as a standard, I don't feel any compelling reason to ever use JSF
over Struts unless JSF becomes a huge marketing
ess.
What should a Struts developer make out of JSF?
Thanks.
-Original Message-
From: Craig McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:50 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?
On Apr 1, 20
On Apr 1, 2005 8:23 AM, Benedict, Paul C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So is Craig's advice to abandon Struts tags even in a Struts app? Write out
> HTML elements yourself and get the values with expressions?
No. My advice is to plan on using JSF components for the UI part.
That can be an orthog
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Benedict, Paul C wrote:
So is Craig's advice to abandon Struts tags even in a Struts app? Write out
HTML elements yourself and get the values with expressions?
Dunno. Craig?
I still use the html tags because they know about the app resources, but
I sometimes struggle a bit when I need to extend
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Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?
NetSQL wrote:
> Craig McClanahan wrote:
>
>> I would caution new projects, however, to *not* use the Struts HTML
>> tags. That part of Struts has received fairly little developer
>> attention, and should be co
NetSQL wrote:
Craig McClanahan wrote:
I would caution new projects, however, to *not* use the Struts HTML
tags. That part of Struts has received fairly little developer
attention, and should be considered legacy at this point.
I would disagree. JSTL replaced some tag, but HTML tag is IMO best
pr
Craig McClanahan wrote:
I would caution new projects, however, to *not* use the Struts HTML
tags. That part of Struts has received fairly little developer
attention, and should be considered legacy at this point.
I would disagree. JSTL replaced some tag, but HTML tag is IMO best
practice and pro
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:30:41 -0800 (PST), Caroline Jen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am working on a big J2EE project. The project is at
> its initial stage. The leaders of the project have not
> quite made up their mind on whether we are going to
> use the Struts framework or JSF. But, all member
ginal Message-
From: Caroline Jen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:01 PM
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?
I am working on a big J2EE project. The project is at
its initial stage. The leaders o
ginal Message-
From: Caroline Jen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:01 PM
To: struts-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Is It Possible to Code Using Struts and JSF at the Same Time?
I am working on a big J2EE project. The project is at
its initial stage. The leaders o
I am working on a big J2EE project. The project is at
its initial stage. The leaders of the project have not
quite made up their mind on whether we are going to
use the Struts framework or JSF. But, all members of
the team think that we should start coding.
Is it possible to use the Struts framewo
Hello,
Can you please give me an advice on how to upload a file in an application
which uses Struts and JSF? Should I use Struts "file" element or is there
another way to do this?
Thanks.
Nikola
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:07:02 -0700, Don Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/craigmcc/20040927#struts_or_jsf_struts_and
Yep, that's me ... after endless arm twisting from my colleagues at
Sun and elsewhere, I figured it was finally time to start blogging,
and my fi
http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/craigmcc/20040927#struts_or_jsf_struts_and
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:03:28 -0500, ajTreece <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Morning Folks...
>
> The group I'm with is being pushed to migrate from Struts to JSF.
> Whether that is good or bad move is not up for debate...
Morning Folks...
The group I'm with is being pushed to migrate from Struts to JSF.
Whether that is good or bad move is not up for debate... It's just a
design decision that we have to live with.
I've seen random emails on this alias dealing with Struts / JSF issues
and questions. What is Struts
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