[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-12-11 Thread CVAlkan
Again, thanks for responding. You say "Being a software localizer myself I use bidi control characters all the time, and have explained them to many localizer over the years and they seem to grasp the concept quickly and appreciate it.", so I have to wonder whether your perspective may result

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-12-11 Thread Khaled Hosny
> Re: "paragraph direction and alignment are two different things." Certainly > true (and, from many discussions here and elsewhere, it's obvious to me > that > anyone who cares about such things already knows this as well) but, I > think, > misses the primary point, which is to eliminate a

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-12-10 Thread CVAlkan
Khaled: Re: "paragraph direction and alignment are two different things." Certainly true (and, from many discussions here and elsewhere, it's obvious to me that anyone who cares about such things already knows this as well) but, I think, misses the primary point, which is to eliminate a bizarre

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-12-09 Thread Khaled Hosny
A bit late to the party… > Unfortunately (in my view anyway), the algorithm itself makes some > assumptions > that I find unjustifiable. A primary example is the categorization of > certain > "shared characters" (spaces, punctuation and so forth) as neutral, and > accompanying > that with the

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-11-24 Thread jonathon
On 24/11/16 10:35, CVAlkan wrote: > What's the program and language you're looking at? FontMatrix, and C++, respectively. > But consider this my encouragement for whatever that's worth; I'm also > willing to experiment with whatever you come up with if you need another I cloned it to my GitHub

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-11-24 Thread CVAlkan
A couple questions ... What's the program and language you're looking at? Even though I doubt I could assist, I'd still like to be able to read through what already exists in a never-ending quest to get a handle on this subject (which is far more complex than I originally envisioned, although I'm

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-11-23 Thread toki
On 28/10/16 22:26, CVAlkan wrote: > Would love to see it when you have a prototype ... Instead of creating a program from scratch, I'm going to modify an existing one. The downside is that I have to learn another programming language. Along the way, I'll also have to fix some existing bugs in

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-11-04 Thread CVAlkan
Dotan: I'm sorry I never stumbled across your essay before, but thanks for an excellent explanation of how the Unicode® Standard Annex #9/Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm works *in actual practice*! So far as I can see, your description is still valid for even the recently updated version of that

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-11-02 Thread CVAlkan
Jonathon (and Jonathan):Here is a pdf containing a better explanation of how to HELP avoid unnecessary font substitutions in LibreOffice Writer and other applications. The primary cause of this to be using fonts that either don't have or don't correctly report their coverage and other

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-28 Thread CVAlkan
Would love to see it when you have a prototype ... As I said in the comments, I started with a quick and dirty shell script, having no idea how big it would get, but by the time I realized I should have begun with a "real" language it was a little late. If I can do any testing and can find the

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-28 Thread jonathon
On 28/10/2016 19:25, CVAlkan wrote: > I've attempted to upload my shell script using the More button; Thanks. > heavily commented (as much for my own benefit as anything). If a script is not commented, then nobody knows what it is supposed to do. > That helps when choosing a font that Writer

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-28 Thread CVAlkan
I've attempted to upload my shell script using the More button; it is very heavily commented (as much for my own benefit as anything). As a quick trial you can make it executable and then type, for instance: FindFont thai greek or FindFont hindi persian hebrew The first will list all the fonts

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-27 Thread jonathon
On 27/10/2016 14:55, CVAlkan wrote: > answer to your question might be: if you were to fix all of those things, > you probably wouldn't encounter the unwarranted and unexpected font > substitutions. If it wasn't so big, Unifont would make a good test case. Maybe I can figure out how to do bulk

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-27 Thread CVAlkan
A very good question but, depending on what you mean specifically by "foundry data" I'm afraid I don't know that it will. My best guess is that it will **improve the chances that it will**, but there are many other factors involved. My understanding of all this is murky at best given the unclear

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-26 Thread jonathon
On 26/10/2016 18:36, CVAlkan wrote: > substituting fonts unnecessarily when you switch, even if you have > specifically selected a font containing both scripts/languages you are using. Does the bad font substitution go away, if you manually add foundry data to the font? jonathon -- To

[libreoffice-users] Re: Struggling with Hebrew in LO

2016-10-26 Thread CVAlkan
Hi Jonathan: Welcome to the multi-language war veterans club! Your purple heart is in the mail. There IS actually a logic as to how characters are laid out when typing mixed L-T-R and R-T-L text in a line or sentence, but you need to understand that most text rendering mechanisms continue to