Does anyone here have experience installing DD-WRT?
More specifically on a Netgear WNDR 3300 router. I've pretty much
given up hope of getting any use out of that router but I would like
to try the alternate software but I am having trouble finding a
clear and co
On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 14:24 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>
> Does anyone here have experience installing DD-WRT?
>
> More specifically on a Netgear WNDR 3300 router. I've pretty much
> given up hope of getting any use out of that router but I would like
>
On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 11:38 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 14:24 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone here have experience installing DD-WRT?
> >
> > More specifically on a Netgear WNDR 3300 router. I've pretty much
> >
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 14:24:25 -0400,
Bob Goodwin wrote:
>
> Does anyone here have experience installing DD-WRT?
It's been a while (I use OpenWRT for new stuff), but I just followed the
instructions on their web pages. It involved using tftp and worked well.
>
On 13/08/10 14:41, Terry Polzin wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 11:38 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>>
>> has nothing whatsoever to do with Fedora but...
>>
>> yes, do a hard reset before installing DD-WRT (and after I think if I
>> remember correctly)
>>
>
Bob Goodwin wrote:
On 13/08/10 14:41, Terry Polzin wrote:
On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 11:38 -0700, Craig White wrote:
has nothing whatsoever to do with Fedora but...
yes, do a hard reset before installing DD-WRT (and after I think if I
remember correctly)
Craig
--
Have you
On 13/08/10 14:56, Seann wrote:
> Bob Goodwin wrote:
>> On 13/08/10 14:41, Terry Polzin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 11:38 -0700, Craig White wrote:
>>>> has nothing whatsoever to do with Fedora but...
>>>>
>>>> yes, do a hard
On Fri August 13 2010, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> On 13/08/10 14:41, Terry Polzin wrote:
> > On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 11:38 -0700, Craig White wrote:
> >> has nothing whatsoever to do with Fedora but...
> >>
> >> yes, do a hard reset before installing DD-WRT (
On 13/08/10 14:45, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 14:24:25 -0400,
>Bob Goodwin wrote:
>> Does anyone here have experience installing DD-WRT?
> It's been a while (I use OpenWRT for new stuff), but I just followed the
> instructions on their web p
On 08/16/2010 07:54 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> I finally got DD-WRT installed on the Netgear WNDR3300 router.
ok.
>
> I did the 30-30-30 hard reset routine, used the Netgear GUI "Router
> Upgrade" menu item with "dd-wrt.v24_std-wndr3300.chk" that churned
> for about 90 seconds and and asked for
On 16/08/10 16:05, g wrote:
>
> i look forward to hearing more of what you find.
>
> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
>
>
> later
>
It should be essentially the same procedure. I imagine Linksys has a
similar "Router Upgrade" function also
On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 20:05 +, g wrote:
> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
you should convert your wrt54g immediately. DD-WRT works so much better
and is much more secure.
Craig
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On Mon August 16 2010, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> On 16/08/10 16:05, g wrote:
> > i look forward to hearing more of what you find.
> >
> > now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
> > linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
> >
> >
> > later
>
> It should be essentially the same procedure. I ima
On 16/08/10 16:33, John Aldrich wrote:
> On Mon August 16 2010, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>>On 16/08/10 16:05, g wrote:
>>> i look forward to hearing more of what you find.
>>>
>>> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
>>> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
>>>
>>>
>>> later
>> It should
On 08/16/2010 09:16 PM, Craig White wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 20:05 +, g wrote:
>
>> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
>> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
>
> you should convert your wrt54g immediately. DD-WRT works so much better
> and is much more secure.
>
> Craig
>
On 08/16/2010 08:12 PM, paul wrote:
> On 08/16/2010 04:05 PM, g wrote:
>> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
>> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
>
> I setup dd-wrt on my wrt54gl a while back. I put it in as client
> bridged. I use it to plug in wired devices, then it is wireless back
On 08/16/2010 08:12 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> It should be essentially the same procedure. I imagine Linksys has a
> similar "Router Upgrade" function also.
you got me on that one.
i did not mention before, but wrt54g is a full virgin. "she" has never
been powered up and connected. aka, 'nib'.
On 08/16/2010 08:33 PM, John Aldrich wrote:
> There is a "firmware upgrade" function from the web console, I believe it's
> called...
i can not answer to. as in reply to bob g, 'nib'.
> and for Linksys you have to use the "mini" upgrade first, and then
> the full upgrade, otherwise you "brick
On 08/16/2010 08:16 PM, Craig White wrote:
> you should convert your wrt54g immediately. DD-WRT works so much better
> and is much more secure.
thank you for advise.
i am thinking about it, just so i can play with wireless.
when i get some wireless cameras for surveillances, i will most
certai
On 08/16/2010 09:22 PM, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 wrote:
> AGREED!!! I updated a DLink router with DD-WRT and both the
> functionality and security options are much improved.
good to see.
always nice to see positive responses.
dd-wrt is a dead end as far as getting any response from.
there are a lo
On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 22:13 +, g wrote:
> On 08/16/2010 08:16 PM, Craig White wrote:
>
>
> > you should convert your wrt54g immediately. DD-WRT works so much better
> > and is much more secure.
>
> thank you for advise.
>
> i am thinking about it, just so i can play with wireless.
>
> when
On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 21:03 +, g wrote:
> On 08/16/2010 08:12 PM, paul wrote:
> > On 08/16/2010 04:05 PM, g wrote:
> >> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
> >> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
> >
> > I setup dd-wrt on my wrt54gl a while back. I put it in as client
> > bridged. I
On 08/16/2010 11:15 PM, Craig White wrote:
> maybe you should just jawbone it for another year so you have 2 years of
> outdated links
rofl.
too late. i already deleted them.
--
peace out.
tc,hago.
g
.
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
help microsoft stamp out pira
On 08/16/2010 11:14 PM, Craig White wrote:
> dd-wrt features dwarf Linksys WRT54G software features - I was sorry I
> didn't convert sooner and so will you.
thanks for pointer on 'dwarf'.
in using dwarf, can wrt54g still be upgraded to later version?
or does memory hold wrt54g back?
> Zonemi
On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 00:09 +, g wrote:
> On 08/16/2010 11:14 PM, Craig White wrote:
>
>
> > dd-wrt features dwarf Linksys WRT54G software features - I was sorry I
> > didn't convert sooner and so will you.
>
> thanks for pointer on 'dwarf'.
>
> in using dwarf, can wrt54g still be upgraded
On 16/08/10 17:50, g wrote:
> On 08/16/2010 08:12 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>
>
>> It should be essentially the same procedure. I imagine Linksys has a
>> similar "Router Upgrade" function also.
> you got me on that one.
>
> i did not mention before, but wrt54g is a full virgin. "she" has never
> b
On 08/17/2010 12:27 AM, Craig White wrote:
> there actually happens to be many different versions/variations of the
> device they sell as a wrt54g but in answer to your question, you can
> install any binary flash image you wish including putting back Linksys's
> version if you want.
in initial
On 08/17/2010 01:02 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> Yes, I had upgraded the original to the latest Netgear .chk file and
> still had the copy I downloaded, about 3 megs. I reinstalled that
> with tftp.
ok. but that is different from if you had installed dd-wrt, did not like
and wanted to restore old ne
On Monday, 16 August, 2010 @ 20:05 zulu, g scribed:
> now i will have someone to fall back on when i
> change my linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
I think there are some versions of WRT54G that simply
can't be converted (version 7 comes to mind)... so check
its version number following the model # on the un
On 16/08/10 21:17, g wrote:
> On 08/17/2010 01:02 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, I had upgraded the original to the latest Netgear .chk file and
>> still had the copy I downloaded, about 3 megs. I reinstalled that
>> with tftp.
> ok. but that is different from if you had installed dd-wrt, di
On 17/08/10 01:37, Darr wrote:
> On Monday, 16 August, 2010 @ 20:05 zulu, g scribed:
>
>> now i will have someone to fall back on when i
>> change my linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
> I think there are some versions of WRT54G that simply
> can't be converted (version 7 comes to mind)... so check
> its ver
On Mon, 2010-08-16 at 22:13 +, g wrote:
> when i get some wireless cameras for surveillances, i will most
> certainly convert it,
Going off on a tangent: I hope you don't require images from them for
security purposes, because it's child's play to kill a wireless signal,
with no need to hack
On Mon August 16 2010, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>
> I believe I did, there was a blinking power on LED and nothing else
> worked. However I was still able to ping 192.168.1.1 and eventually
> found that I could re-install the original system, which fortunately
> I still had, using tftp w
On Mon August 16 2010, g wrote:
> i would like to find something for this 2wire that i have, but nothing
> hits.
>
Based on a quick search I did, it looks like you're out of luck on the
2Wire.
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On 16/08/10 16:05, g wrote:
>
> i look forward to hearing more of what you find.
>
> now i will have someone to fall back on when i change my
> linksys wrt54g. (gbwg)
>
>
> later
>
I think I have the Netgear WNDR3300 set up as a router but
I'm stumped when it comes to telling th
On Wednesday, 18 August, 2010 @12:46 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
>I found a place under "Services" where I can start listing the
>assignments I want but it wont let me save or apply them.
That's the right place. But on the Setup Basic page you should
set the DHCP scope to exclude t
On 08/17/2010 08:31 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> Well, if you say so. But intuitively I see no difference
what i was basing on is what i had read and of those who ended up with
blue bricks.
> Remember I used the tftp method because after attempting to install
ok. tftp must be the trick, as i do n
On 08/17/2010 10:41 AM, John Aldrich wrote:
> On Mon August 16 2010, g wrote:
>> i would like to find something for this 2wire that i have, but nothing
>> hits.
>>
> Based on a quick search I did, it looks like you're out of luck on the
> 2Wire.
thanks for confirming my 'nothing hits'.
--
peac
On 08/17/2010 05:37 AM, Darr wrote:
> I think there are some versions of WRT54G that simply
thank you.
i have checked, version i have can be converted. because of
low memory, i have to use micro version.
--
peace out.
tc,hago.
g
.
in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
**
On 08/18/2010 12:46 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> There are a lot of options but I can see there is a learning curve.
how much new and elaborate software have you installed that did not have a
learning curve?
> I need to control the dhcp assigned addresses or I will have a mess.
at least you have l
On 08/17/2010 09:21 AM, Tim wrote:
>> Going off on a tangent: I hope you don't require images from them for
>> security purposes, because it's child's play to kill a wireless signal,
>> with no need to hack into the wireless data.
cameras will just be an addition to hardwire closed loop switc
On Thursday, 19 August, 2010 @03:22 zulu, g scribed:
> with what all i am involved with at this time, it looks like
> it will be mid of next month before i can bust my virgin.
That should give you plenty of time to digest this
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51486
in case you had
On 19/08/10 14:25, Darr wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 August, 2010 @03:22 zulu, g scribed:
>
>> with what all i am involved with at this time, it looks like
>> it will be mid of next month before i can bust my virgin.
>
> That should give you plenty of time to digest this
>
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/php
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:08:37 +0200
Erik P. Olsen wrote:
> How can a Linux user without access to windoze ever install dd-wrt?
I used the Tools > Start Private Browsing mode for all my interactions
with the web interface on the router. That prevents firefox from caching
info that will be utterly w
On 19/08/10 15:17, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 15:08:37 +0200
> Erik P. Olsen wrote:
>
>> How can a Linux user without access to windoze ever install dd-wrt?
>
> I used the Tools> Start Private Browsing mode for all my interactions
> with the web interface on the router. That prevents
On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 09:17 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> I used the Tools > Start Private Browsing mode for all my interactions
> with the web interface on the router. That prevents firefox from
> caching info that will be utterly wrong when the web content
> completely changes for the router at the
On 08/19/2010 12:25 PM, Darr wrote:
> That should give you plenty of time to digest this
>
> http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51486
thank you. very good read, bookmark for future.
the 'humor links' are great too.
--
peace out.
tc,hago.
g
.
in a free world without fence
On 18/08/10 22:44, Darr wrote:
> On Wednesday, 18 August, 2010 @12:46 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
>> I found a place under "Services" where I can start listing the
>> assignments I want but it wont let me save or apply them.
> That's the right place. But on the Setup Basic page yo
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:12:19 +0930
Tim wrote:
> If that's the problem, then the router's webserving software needs
> *fixing* to set appropriate expiry headers with the HTTP header. That's
> a serving error, not a browser error, and easily fixed.
Not easily fixed if the problem is that the bad e
On Thu August 19 2010, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> On 18/08/10 22:44, Darr wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 18 August, 2010 @12:46 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
> >> I found a place under "Services" where I can start listing
> >> the assignments I want but it wont let me save or apply
> >>
On 20/08/10 06:38, John Aldrich wrote:
>
> Not really... however, it may be that the developers of DD-WRT never
> dreamed anyone would want more than a handful of DHCP assignments, so the
> functionality just isn't there. You might try hacking the code to create
> your own version of DD-WRT and s
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 06:38:01 -0400,
John Aldrich wrote:
> Not really... however, it may be that the developers of DD-WRT never
> dreamed anyone would want more than a handful of DHCP assignments, so the
They also have a commercial version and have limited some things (not
necessarily DHCP
On 20/08/10 09:48, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 06:38:01 -0400,
>John Aldrich wrote:
>> Not really... however, it may be that the developers of DD-WRT never
>> dreamed anyone would want more than a handful of DHCP assignments, so the
> They also have a commercial version
ssage-
>From: Bob Goodwin
>Sent: Aug 20, 2010 7:19 AM
>To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
>Subject: Re: Installing DD-WRT -
>
> On 20/08/10 09:48, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 06:38:01 -0400,
>>John Aldrich wrote:
>>> Not really...
On 08/20/2010 02:26 PM, James Mckenzie insultingly wrote:
> I have a question: What does this have to do with Fedora?
it is being used as a router for systems running fedora?
> I've been following this thread with an interest to see what installing a
> software package on a router/firewall has t
James Mckenzie writes:
> I have a question: What does this have to do with Fedora?
>
> I've been following this thread with an interest to see what installing a
> software package on a router/firewall has to do with Linux?
>
> Give me a clue or take this elsewhere (like a router list.)
It isn'
On 08/20/2010 05:11 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:
16. do i hear 17?
--
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tc,hago.
g
.
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On 08/20/2010 01:28 PM, g wrote:
> On 08/20/2010 05:11 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:
>
> 16. do i hear 17?
17
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Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)
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"Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" wrote:
>
>James Mckenzie writes:
>> I have a question: What does this have to do with Fedora?
>>
>> I've been following this thread with an interest to see what installing a
>> software package on a router/firewall has to do with Linux?
>>
>> Give me a clue or take this
g wrote:
>Sent: Aug 20, 2010 9:24 AM
>To: fedora users
>Subject: Re: Installing DD-WRT -
>
>On 08/20/2010 02:26 PM, James Mckenzie insultingly wrote:
>> I have a question: What does this have to do with Fedora?
>
>> I've been following this thread with a
On 08/20/2010 06:09 PM, James Mckenzie wrote:
> Oh, so that's the connection. Now I see...
if you had read post a little closer, you would/should have noticed that
posters with replies to correct problems would have such knowledge because
as some indicated, they are using dd-wrt.
> Actually, I
On Friday, 20 August, 2010 @12:33 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
>There is no other dhcp server in the system. About all I could do
>is change a dozen dhcp devices with fixed addresses. I changed too
>dhcp since there were fewer router configuration problems using it.
I have only a couple
On Friday, August 20, 2010 04:12:34 pm g did opine:
> i and 15 other subscribers are interested.
>
> have a nice day.
Make that 16. I've been running it on an old 450 mhz x86 box with
everything stripped, boots from a CF card plugged into an IDE adaptor,
headless, about 4 5 years now. Best
On Friday, August 20, 2010 04:17:34 pm g did opine:
> On 08/20/2010 05:11 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:
>
> 16. do i hear 17?
Yup, that was me, so 17 it is.
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed
On 20/08/10 15:39, Darr wrote:
> I have only a couple machines on my LAN that I really
> need/want to have the same addresses every time... a print
> server and a computer I want to be accessible via dyndns.org
> (requires the same address every time so the port forwarding
> in the router points
On 08/20/2010 12:28 PM, g wrote:
> On 08/20/2010 05:11 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:
>
> 16. do i hear 17?
>
>
>
18
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On 08/20/2010 02:39 PM, Darr wrote:
> I have only a couple machines on my LAN that I really
> need/want to have the same addresses every time... a print
> server and a computer I want to be accessible via dyndns.org
> (requires the same address every time so the port forwarding
> in the router poin
On Friday, 20 August, 2010 @21:21 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
>
>With my equipment layout that would require installing another
>computer downstairs at the "modem" and wireless router location.
Hmmm... I guess I don't understand why you say that. The
DHCP server can be located anywhere,
On 08/21/2010 02:36 AM, Darr wrote:
> On Friday, 20 August, 2010 @21:21 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
>
>>With my equipment layout that would require installing another
>>computer downstairs at the "modem" and wireless router location.
>
> Hmmm... I guess I don't understand why you say that
On 20/08/10 22:36, Darr wrote:
> On Friday, 20 August, 2010 @21:21 zulu, Bob Goodwin scribed:
>
>> With my equipment layout that would require installing another
>> computer downstairs at the "modem" and wireless router location.
> Hmmm... I guess I don't understand why you say that. The
On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 17:21 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> With my equipment layout that would require installing another
> computer
Or... You install another small router device, one that lets you set up
DHCP easily, and sit that between your existing modem/router and the
rest of your LAN. That'd
On 21/08/10 05:53, Tim wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 17:21 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>> With my equipment layout that would require installing another
>> computer
> Or... You install another small router device, one that lets you set up
> DHCP easily, and sit that between your existing modem/ro
Tim:
>> Or... You install another small router device, one that lets you set
>> up DHCP easily, and sit that between your existing modem/router and
>> the rest of your LAN. That'd use less power than a PC, and have less
>> things to go wrong with it.
>
Bob Goodwin:
> I have a spare router simil
On 21/08/10 08:22, Tim wrote:
> Tim:
>>> Or... You install another small router device, one that lets you set
>>> up DHCP easily, and sit that between your existing modem/router and
>>> the rest of your LAN. That'd use less power than a PC, and have less
>>> things to go wrong with it.
> Bob Go
On 08/21/2010 12:22 PM, Tim wrote:
> All your wireless devices transmit on the same channel.
yes and no. depends on manual assignment.
> They just don't transmit at the same time as each other, they take turns.
true. first to transmit/first heard.
> That's why wireless sucks as a networking m
On 21/08/10 12:09, g wrote:
> On 08/21/2010 12:22 PM, Tim wrote:
>
>
>> All your wireless devices transmit on the same channel.
> yes and no. depends on manual assignment.
>
>> They just don't transmit at the same time as each other, they take turns.
> true. first to transmit/first heard.
>
>> T
On 08/21/2010 04:26 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> I believe they are "spread spectrum" devices which enables them to
> avoid mutual interference, not that I understand it but that's my
> impression.
>
> "Wi-Fi products use both single-carrier direct-sequence spread
yes. but this does not allow
Tim:
>> All your wireless devices transmit on the same channel.
g:
> yes and no. depends on manual assignment.
Well, generally speaking, your access point only works on one channel,
and all the clients use the same one. If you have two access points on
the same channel, such as across a large si
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 10:25 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> Dhcp just makes it easier when I am dealing with Apple Mac and
> Windows devices where I am always muddling through an unfamiliar
> setup procedure. Fedora Linux makes it so simple I am spoiled ...
Well, if you'd like to avoid configuring net
to data is not as simple as
it would be between two broadcast stations having mutual
interference, probably less a problem for the data links.
And if I add a second router to the system I would most likely add
to the interference problems and ultimately reduce my end to end
data tr
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 09:36:55 -0400,
Bob Goodwin wrote:
> Here's an interesting paper on "wifi" interference:
>
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/technology/channel/deployment/guide/Channel.html#wp134132
> Notice that the channel spacing is 5 mHz but the bandwidth is mor
On 08/22/2010 06:42 AM, Tim wrote:
> Tim:
>>> All your wireless devices transmit on the same channel.
>
> g:
>> yes and no. depends on manual assignment.
>
> Well, generally speaking, your access point only works on one channel,
live and learn, die and forget, i look forward to dieing to see if
On Tuesday, 24 August, 2010 @02:15 zulu, g scribed:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonal_frequency-division_multiplexing
> got me started, now i am looking for more
> thorough knowledge to read.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/wireless/technology/channel/deployment/guide/Channel.html
Shows
On 08/24/2010 03:39 PM, Darr wrote:
darr,
thank you for links. i already had the cisco link and it is an
interesting read.
i bookmarked rest of links and added to my wifi/802.11 section.
if you or anyone else have some info and tutorial links, please
pass along. i enjoy a good read.
i never h
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 18:02 +, g wrote:
> i never had pleasure of college learning of electronics
I did. And beyond the obvious benefit of learning something properly
(assuming that your teachers aren't incompetent - a pet hate of mine,
after having much of my time wasted), you get the chance
On 08/25/2010 01:53 AM, Tim wrote:
> On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 18:02 +, g wrote:
>> i never had pleasure of college learning of electronics
>
> I did. And beyond the obvious benefit of learning something properly
i can understand what you mean about college level learning. especially
in field o
On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote:
>I did not see nay place where there was an advanced version of
>DD-WRT for sale? I'll have to look again. I would pay a reasonable
>amount for it.
Honestly, I wouldn't go that route and support this reduction of
features for users of the "
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